Voter Apathy - Bitter Pills


(Xenuria) #61

A common misconception about the CSM is that you can run on a specific platform, get elected on that specific platform and then be successful in changing things. My term on CSM is not an accurate representation of how things normally work. I was successful in totally reforming the CSM because reform was already in the cards. I was the only reform candidate in history and I got elected during a time when there was already crazy pressure on CCP to reform the CSM.

If you are the “War decs are broken” candidate and you run successfully on that “platform”, great job. Now what? You ran on something common sense and got the vote out but this year CCP isn’t iterating on that area of the game. So your all thumbs during CSM meetings.

Running people from a given play-style of the game is by itself not enough. The person needs to be polymathic and intelligent outside the area of their focus. The concept you laid out won’t work for something like the CSM. It would be a waste of seats for people that are generalized in their focus or narrow to a region or playstyle.

(Gal Desh) #62

I understand that the CSM makes no decisions or has any power to change anything at all. Obviously, I’ve never been on the CSM, but my understanding is that they provide input on what CCP says they are going to do. My understanding is that the CSM brings the views from the entire community (or at least should) to the table and helps to provide feedback.

As far as the platform, I mean only a representative that lives in each area of space. No matter if they are a HS merc, HS miner or HS mission runner, they would represent HS on that ticket. If everyone is from Null, the representation is skewed towards that space, no matter how much people want to remain unbiased. And simple changes to a ship can mean different things in Null vs WH vs HS. Or an event that may come up may have a different impact on the different regions.

A single issue platform wouldn’t be of much use unless that topic happens to come up, but a general representative of an entire area can be very useful when it comes to how some of the decisions may change a particular area.

I just think a focus of where a person is from and their normal activities is better than a general group of Null / PVP players. And yes, there might currently be a couple that aren’t Null / PVP but it seems there should be a better representation of interests overall. The concept I mentioned requires a rethink on how CSM is run and elected.

Again, just my opinion from someone that is apathetic to the current process.

(Andresoni Janau) #63

Representative bodies are only that as long as they show themselves to realistically represent those they claim to be governing. In the current CSM, would could you point to that realistically represents the interests of a High Sec player? A New Player? Many regular posters on the forums are so blatantly arrogant about the amount of time they’ve spent at this game, openly expressing outright disgust with things like Free Alpha Accounts, how can such people (a lot of CSM members fit this player archetype perfectly) claim to be representing anyone but other embittered long time players who have embraced the predatory side of the game?

(MinerArt) #64

A common misconception about any platforms that are being run upon is that you actually work on anything you claim you wish to work on in full.

If a person ran on the “war decs are broken” campaign and then never even bothered to push CCP to consider adjusting it they can still claim they are working on the problem with CCP and nobody would know better than the other CSM members who if they feel like it can claim otherwise just to get you off the CSM.

But as already seen:

Minutes are posted.

Yukiko explained that his focus was on opportunities
Innominate is worried about the static nature of the map
Aryth is concerned with making sure that moon mineral rebalance and drilling goes smoothly
Judge is concerned with ship and module balance
Steve was focused on finishing the structure replacement
Suitonia is concerned with PVP across the game, especially with how people get into PVP
Rhiload is concerned about PVP and structures
Jin’taan is focused on improving the velocity of balancing
Noobman is focused on structure and capital warfare

But the question is very simple.

Hold you to what you said.


Xenuria: Current state is a vast and moving social medium, in a better state than previously but needs work. Dream change would be for the social aspect to help new players keep playing.

So how exactly did you intend to improve the social aspect of the game in whole with a topic like this one? Pat the voters on the back while the people who want the CSM discarded get shot in the foot?

(Brisc Rubal) #65

I’m taking my responsibility to represent the entire player base seriously, and I will do what I can to ensure that those voices are heard, even if it’s been a long time since I was a newbro. There’s room for lots of different playstyles in EVE.

(Andresoni Janau) #66

Make any effort to represent the interest of New and Alpha players and see how long you last in the CSM leak money club.

(Brisc Rubal) #67

At least a year.

Here’s the deal - I’m a nobody. I’m not an alliance leader, a famous FC or some kind of celebrity. I just play the game and I want to help make it better. I’m not in this to make money, help my alliance win (we do that by being good at the game), or get free trips to places I can go whenever I want.

All I’ve got is my integrity and a conscience. I’m going to work hard to represent everybody, especially underrepresented playstyles, because somebody has to do it.

(Andresoni Janau) #68

Even if you are what you claim to be, you’re a token who will not affect the game at large. 1 voice trying to speak out for the future of the game cannot shout down a dozen others who want addicts with dozens of accounts to be the game’s ruling body.

However, If you really are a new / part-time alpha player, I hope you enjoy your glimpse into the trailing end of a skinner box, where only the most seriously addicted players are catered to, while the public at large is ignored.

This is an amazing game. It deserves millions of subscribers and a vast population, yet as along as it only caters to the most addicted players, it will continue to alienate the public.

(Brisc Rubal) #69

What I claim to be is somebody who is willing to listen to and represent the concerns of new players and alphas. as well as everybody else in the game, because that is what I was elected to do.

Maybe I am a token, but I’m a token that something like 12,000 accounts just voted for, so it’s probably in CCP’s interest to at least acknowledge what I tell them, even if they don’t do anything about it in the immediate future.

But let me ask you this - if you feel this way, what makes you keep playing?

(Andresoni Janau) #70

The game itself is an amazing construct that has virtually unlimited potential, I maintain an Alpha account in hopes that one day the game evolves to a point where i’d be comfortable subscribing regularly. I look at the population every time I log in and frown. This universe could easily hold over a hundred times its current active population and still not be full, yet CCP’s reliance on the skinner box model (with addicted players who maintain multiple accounts as the focus) will always limit the game’s ability to grow. A larger population would also force the game to develop in other ways, social interaction systems would need to increase in depth, PvE content would need to increase in quality for all levels of play, there are countless ways that having more living breathing players would benefit the game universe, and yet CCP seems content with a small core of addicts.

(Brisc Rubal) #71

No company is content with a small core of addicts. Most MMOs view subscriptions as a bucket with a hole in it. You have a slow trickle of people unsubscribing and leaving the game, for whatever reason, and they need to keep filling the bucket in order to keep the game stable. The idea behind Alphas, for example, is designed to get people to try the game, find they like it and then stick around.

Recruitment is key and that takes folks getting their friends to try the game. The game isn’t for everybody, and I think CCP recognizes that, and they’re not going to turn down the players with multiple accounts. Those guys are the ones with significant investment in the game and are likely to stick around.

I hope you do decide to sub, at some point.

(Circumstantial Evidence) #72

EVE is set up as a hyper-capitalistic dystopian universe, where loss can be so commonplace that anytime you succeed at something, you can feel more rewarded than in other MMO’s where getting rewarded is the norm for the most basic activities. Hardcore EVE players reject some basic ideas that other more popular MMO’s use, like:

  • complete safety in starting or introductory zones
  • consensual pvp as a possibility, even in a dedicated pvp zone
  • no scamming or stealing
  • minimal losses, even in PvE

In order to attract more causal players who want the flavor of participating in this kind of world but who have no interest in riskier aspects, I think it needs an expansion / overhaul of highsec PvE. (I’m not also advocating any of the bullet points above, btw.)

  • More story-driven missions with some procedural elements & player choices
  • frequent content additions
  • full voice acting in missions, like the new NPE tutorial

(Xenuria) #73

We are having the discussion aren’t we?

I don’t want casuals rushing into eve thinking that it will be their next shallow, repetitive dopaminergic reward schedule. I play EvE to get away from the skinner boxes with permanent progression treadmills underneath them. That is not what EvE is and I hope it never becomes that.
Better PVE is good
More story driven content is good

That said if the idea of potentially losing everything you have built except for the goop in your head due to a simple mistake frightens you I don’t want to talk to you. I don’t want to hear from you. HTFU

(MinerArt) #74

You’d do better talking to them about how to avoid mistakes and how minimal the losses of such events really are. Improve their tank to words. Instead you choose plug your ears and ignore them?

(Xenuria) #75

No, my good human; I choose to shoot them over and over again. I choose to blast them with hot loads until such a time as they feel the error of their ways. At the climax of their self-awareness and recognition they will follow one of 2 paths. Self-Improvement or Exile to a game space more appropriate.

(MinerArt) #76

Ladies and gentlemen…

Your former CSM representative’s view on how to improve eve’s subscriber rate. Hit people until they stop being dumb or until they quit.

We’re not getting anything useful out of this thread anymore.

(Xenuria) #77

I don’t recall you ever asking me how I would improve eve’s subscriber rate.
In fact this is what you asked me word for word.

If you are going to troll my thread and flame-bait than I ask that you stop posting here.

(Lorelei Ierendi) #79


“Lorelei Ierendi, Act fast - Get 15% off Omega!”

Just a quickie.

I got this mail on all my accounts, alpha and omega.

The fact that CCP sends these mails out is proof that they believe that the message reaches people.

Yet there was no mail reminding about the CSM elections…

Just saying.

(MinerArt) #80

Quite right. We get tons of mails about sales and skins and subscriptions but zero about:

(L'gonic D'gingar) #81

Experts maybe? But I fail to understand how making me go thru another CUSTOMER in a vain attempt to get my concerns to management addressed encourages me to re up my subscription! When I go to a restaurant and order a steak medium and it comes to me burnt to a crisp ! Having me to go the “Expert” vegetarian customer to have my objection heard by the cook does not promote a good experience! I have the skill level and strength to be in Null. I choose not to because I work for a living and cannot dedicated 40+ hours a week required by Null space living. I Also am bossed enough at real life work so being bossed around by a 19teen year old order me to fly this, this way! CTA, call into work! So a CSM dominated by NULL giants via goonswarm family does zero for me! I strongly suggest CCP have the two items added to the vote for CSM 14! Disband the CSM or abstain !!!