Wardecs are not the problem


(Ralph King-Griffin) #21

Actually CCP foxfour opened the api to wright contacts , giving us insta lists with a couple of clicks and it was broken as all hell.
In doing so he forced a kneejerk reaction and had something canned without proper balance to the surrounding dependent mechanics.
Watchlist , crime watch and war were and remain on the long finger and aren’t getting a look in for mabey another year.

What we have now is exactly what we said would happen.


(Ramona McCandless) #22

You mean like everyone else?


(Gadget Helmsdottir) #23

Who decides what is and is not a "crappy corp?

There are plenty of large corps that would be considered “crappy”.
And every large alliance would be considered crappy by the other large alliances even if just in propaganda.
Should these be disbanded too?

There is a penalty for creating a corp - between 1-2 mil ISK plus the skill.
Another penalty is that you can be wardecced.

Plenty of competent people use the corp rules, penalties, and perks to their advantage.
Corps have the same meaning as your ‘toon’ does. It’s whatever the player put into it.

–Gadget shouts Corp Power!


(Anderson Geten) #24

You know that answer already.

It which is not yours is crappy.

I am in a corp, so this corp must be the best, right ? Anything and anybody else are stupid ducks who can’t appreciate my overall vision and superior knowledge.
And of course if you do harm on my corp, then CCP MUST do something against that.

Seriously, this ^ seems to me most like people thought here and there.


(Solonius Rex) #26

Thats what chat channels and friendlists are for.

There are two ways to accumulate experience and spend time in order to become a good CEO. One, is to go through trial and error, to f+ck up the experience of everyone else in your corp just so you can get a learning experience out of it.

The second is to actually join a competent corp, and follow and learn from your competent CEO on how to run a corporation.

But what im talking about, is actually putting the responsibility and accountability onto the CEO. If you want to be a CEO of a corporation that is more than just an Alt tax-free haven corp, then there should be a higher bar. Because, as it stands, the level requirement for starting a corporation is akin to “Magically appearing”.


(Solonius Rex) #27

Well, no. Thats not it at all.

Your argument consisted of “Hey, its just a game”.

I dont know why you play video games, but i Play video games to have fun. I play them out of enjoyment.

And i dont know how EVE was described to you, but the Developers of the game were pretty clear. Eve is a PVP-central game, a game of conflict where players create the context and content, where you are never safe no matter what system you fly through, and consent to PVP when you click undock.

So yes, EVE is a game that I enjoy playing, and i would enjoy it even more if we had more people in it, because more people equals more content.

Do you play video games for enjoyment? Or do you do it as a second job? My guess is that its the former. In which case, wouldnt you have more enjoyment, more fun, if possible? This is what we are discussing.

Sure, its just a game. Its only a game. But this is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. And this was my point. Your argument was irrelevant and lazy, and on second, deeper thought, utterly void of any meaning.


(Piugattuk) #28

This

And this.

  1. And hello, who do you think gets the materials for building that ship your in???
  2. Who builds the modules you use?
    Your enjoyment of the game comes from the players you criticize, the ones who are doing the “boring” thing, by attacking those people, then turning around and saying you want more people and content doesn’t make any sense except in your mind that your not connecting the dots, you have a disconnect between where content that you enjoy comes from and the person who created it.

(Anderson Geten) #29

More important, he considers that his personal taste is the de facto consensus of the players database - and thus he can look down on people who don’t agree with him.
This is a very childish attitude.


(Gleb Koskov) #30

The problem with war declaration is the lack of objective based gameplay, when Sovereign warfare is just king of the hill, Faction warfare capture the point, corporation warfare lacks identity of what it is about but a pissing contest of who station camps the other the most. Its lame gameplay and I don’t blame players hopping corporations to avoid it.


(MinerArt) #31

Simple question. Really easy to ask. Now how do I win a war that is declared against my corporation vs a group that doesn’t exist beyond the 1 unit docked up in some station somewhere in null sec that has 300 active wars and people only jump in to get an easy kill then dock up again so they can leave corp without getting targeted?

I have no target until I am a target. I have no ability to find my opponent and win this war.

So lets adjust this considering citadels exist. If you do not own a citadel you can not declare war. Lose that citadel and your entire side surrenders every war its involved in.


(Solonius Rex) #32

In the context of this discussion that we are talking about, a Crappy corp would be a do-everything, do-nothing-well Generic Hisec Mining/industry/mission running/maybe-pvp-if-I-make-5-billion-isk-from-taxes-by-exploiting-corp-mates-and-then-spend-10-million-isk-on-a-pvp-ship corporation #482719 that gets wardecced and the CEO does… nothing. After taking isk through taxes and doing a corp ore buyback program that is, im sure very generous, maybe 80% of jita sell prices, the CEO doesnt do anything because he doesnt know or care to.


(Solonius Rex) #33

No, mining is boring and stupid. Its self-evident, and even miners themselves agree with me.

Do you know how i know that mining is stupid and boring? Because most miners in hisec are AFK. The mechanic of mining is boring. Miners know this, because they AFK and go do other things, because none of them want to sit at their desks staring at their lasers. Im all for making mining a more interactive game experience, and its something ive wanted for years. And no one is saying that mining doesnt produce materials and ships.

But come on. Are you serious? Are you seriously going to tell me that mining, in its current state, is so riveting and exciting and interactive that most miners will stare at their screen while they mine?

Seriously?


(Solonius Rex) #34

Sorry, i wouldve thought that the greater consensus of mining is that its a tedious, boring activity that most people AFK if they could. My bad. I forgot how exciting MIning was.

Or maybe you were referring to how i assume most people would think that corps with CEOs who take taxes but dont do anything for their corp members, and end up abandoning the corp while a wardec comes in and lets corp members fend for themselves was a bad thing.

Im glad you decided to post this, instead of replying to my response to your original post.


(Solonius Rex) #35

Usually, nullsec entities do not wardec Generic Hisec Corp #827193. I cant even remember the last time any of the larger nullsec alliances my corp has been with, has wardecced smaller corps. We did a few when we were back in hisec, but thats about it.

No, were talking about corps that actually have standing members in hisec that wardec smaller corps to grief or get easy kills or for whatever reason want to inflict pain and suffering.

But, to answer your question, im not the CEO of that generic hisec mining corp, so i dont know what the conditions of the war is. What I do know, is that if i were the CEO, not having the manpower or the experience to guide my corp out of the war would probably make me a pretty crappy CEO.

I dont know. I guess thats why im not a CEO of my own corp. But I do know some things. I know what not to do. And id say that still puts me above a lot of hisec CEOs i know of.


(MinerArt) #36

Congratulations. You just didn’t answer the question and placed blame on the defenders. You also gave credit to the attackers for randomly declaring war on a group because bacon.


(JuuR Zibaoo) #37

@Solonius_Rex
yesterday i was thinking about to write something and i did but i deleted because i thought it will make no sens to write but today i think different about it …

so lets get it clear
you have no clue whats going on in smaller corps and you blame all the ceos there for just try to make as much isk with there idiot corpmembers and do nothing
thats your main thing you tell us on and on … i dont know why you do this

look i have a different view on this “wars” for a group (corp or alliance) with a lot of members it seams to be fun to declare 300 wars to who ever and then sit in the tradehubs and wait … ok … its there way of playing eve … good no problem with that

but

do you know whats going on in this wardeced corps?
nothing … really nothing … because if you are 6 to 10 jumps out of the tradehubs you dont see any of this war heros … you go mining … you go hauling … you go exploring … you do all the stuff you allways do and you send an out of corp alt to the tradehubs and get what you need or sell what you or your corp has to sell

why the hell you think someone should go and fight in this “war”???
tell me that … there is no need because this war changes nothing … its a complete wast of time and isk but ok … if you want to do that do it … its ok to do it …
and yea sometimes one guy is too lazy and gets killed … who really cares??

this tradehub wardecers need to have 100 200 300 500 wars going on so they have sometimes anyone to kill … its cheap to declare war so it will going on and it will not change anyways so every corp has out of corp alts for hauling
all is good … life is good … isk is good … everyone is happy

the only thing what really could make something happen is if each war costs 200% of the war you declared befor per member … then you have not many wars going on and you would go and hunt the wardeced group … that would really make the war stuff different but luckly it will not happen and so we all do whatever we do allways …

rofl … take it easy … war is not really something so important to most players in eve i guess … they prefer stupid mining to sell stuff to guys in war

JuuR


(Max Deveron) #38

It used to be a limit of 3 active war dec’s that a corp could have running at any one time.

In my opinion, the number of wars need to be limited…maybe 10 at most, and the watchlist needs to be allowed between corporations actively at war at minimum.

Right now some people try to jump on every war that exists, and its crazy stupid…the gameplay of using alt scam corps for wars pretty much was born from this crap, the mercs for the most part became some stupid large groups that dont even resemble actual mercs anymore.

War dec’s may not be the problem, but War Dec mechanics are the biggest problem and i lay the issue solely at CCP’s feet, playerbase is simply using the deck of cards we were given.


(Salvos Rhoska) #39

A wardec limit would perhaps lead to more deliberate wars, but its hard to argue why someone shouldnt be allowed to wardec everyone if they choose and can sink the isk.

I dont see why wardec should enable watchlist. Just because you are at war, should not mean you receive automatic data on their login activity.


(Ralph King-Griffin) #40

because we lack any other substantial intell tools.

ill quote @Lord_Razpataz here

lets say I’m still hunting, [redacted] I would dec lets say 200 people, because rule of thumb says its 10% activity. I need to find those 20 active guys right.
So I start flying around visiting my available locater agents (hard work to get in the first place).
I start with 1 of 200. Run the locate, and I have to wait minimum 4 minutes to the locate comes back. I have a location 30 jumps away , now I’m sending my alt there and the guy is not there.
I fly to the next locator (because there’s a 30 min cooldown) run him again. 4 min later location comes back at the same system, alt verifies that he is not there.
I go to another locator to run 2 of 200. same result (more minutes wasted gameplay) and so on. An hour later or more number 43 I find a dude that is online. \o/

He is docked. I place my alt#1 to look at him while I run nr 34, And the cycle continues until an hour later I have another target online nr 60, he is docked too, 15 jumps the other direction.
Now I have to make a decision, I have 2 alts placed on online wartargets, and put down 2-3 hours of work. Do I leave the one of the online targets I have eyes on to look for a another target?
If I drop eyes he might undock. And I might have to run locates and fly around with my alt for hours to find the next one.
There’s no guarantee your active targets are doing anything, or that you get you target. Just alot of work chasing ghosts.

this is why we have war spamm as bad as we do

it might not be a watchlist but we need intell tools or this crap will continue


(Salvos Rhoska) #42

In other related threads Ive advocated for a service purchasable either from Locator Agents, or through the Bounty interface, which enables watchlist on a specific character for a limited time.

Cost of this service could perhaps be mitigated based on the current bounty on the target, such that the cost of buying watchlist on that target scales down the greater the bounty on them.


Wardec-wide watchlist, is more difficult to price as a bought service.
If its based on number of characters in the target corp, this favors large corps over smaller.
If its based on number of characters in the service purchasers corp, could lead to 1man alt corps accessing login data of thousands of players, and passing data on.

If its a flat rate to purchase the target corps login data/watchlist, again, richer corps will hammer smaller corps.