Okay, so if a venture has +2 warp core strength inherently and that venture has a warp core stabilizer, how does this not prevent warp disruption by two scramblers. Scramblers have -2 strength (I incorrectly thought scramblers were -3 and disruptors were -2). If two scramblers equal -4 strength and a venture with a warp core stabilizer equals +4, how is it that two scrams can tackle a venture with an activated warp core stabilizer?
Can someone please explain how warp stability works?
Two normal scrams cannot tackle a Venture with activated warp core stabilizer.
As you said, the Venture has +2 innate warp strength, which counters a single warp core stabilizer or two warp disruptors. A warp core stabilizer, when active, adds another +2 warp core strength, countering a second warp scrambler or two more warp disruptors.
The only way two scrams can tackle a Venture with an active warp core stabilizer is if one (or both) of the scrams are faction scrams. Faction scrams have +3 warp scram strength.
I don’t think the person in question had a faction scrambler. I’ve seen their zKill loses when they’ve lost the ship they used. It’s always two T2 scramblers. And yet my venture could not warp away. Is there a way to access logs of the event? Are they saved somewhere?
This person uses a manticore bomber to tackle and then has another cloaked ship (Tengu) to finish the job. There is no way to really counter this as bombers have no targeting delay. They can just waltz right up to you and instantly target. In fact, it’s kind of ridiculous because it makes for a better tackle than actual tackle ships like interceptors which appear on dscan and have warp in delay where you see them and can react before they are fully on grid. Sure the other ship could have put another scram on me, but on the zkill loses the Tengu never has any tackle modules. And my venture has a 4 sec warp time and was already aligned. I hit warp the moment she uncloaked. And hit the warp core stab a second or two afterwards and tried again to no avail. The initial warp had already been cancelled before I activated the stabilizer. I don’t think a second ship would have the time to uncloak, wait out the 5s timer and get a target lock that quick. I’m going to have to assume they were using a faction scram that time anyway, because nothing else makes sense. Unless…
Does the warp stab have to be activated ahead of the scrams or else it doesn’t work? I was told it doesn’t matter when you activate it and if you are scrambled, that it will break the scram after the fact. Was I misinformed. Should I immediately hit the stabilizer first, then warp? Cheap unfair stuff like this was why I had the stabilizer in the first place. For it to not even work is kind of annoying as I’ve been sacrificing targeting range all this time for apparently nothing.
I was moving the whole time and never stopped. I’m pretty sure I increased speed to 100% after the first failure because I was in the process of launching my drones and getting ready to orbit the bomber when all else failed. I stated in my previous post that I was already aligned (and moving very slowly), actively dscanning and everything. But there is no recourse against a bomber tackle. I might as well have been AFK.
I do not understand why they even have a lack of targeting delay. Isn’t first person view what they use to fire bombs without a target lock? The instant targeting after uncloak needs to be reassessed because there is no counterplay. Assuming they require target locks for bombs, they need a hard coded penalty to target resolution so that they can only lock large ships fast. That is their intended purpose. As it stands, if they want you they get you (outside of pilot incompetence). No amount of vigilance matters. Anyway, this is a matter for a completely different discussion which I’ll have to start elsewhere. Thank you for you replies.
Bombers can also use torpedos for which they need a target lock.
The counterplay is to kill the bomber, their defences are paper thin. This is often why bombers are only used as initial tackle but work together with other ships as they aren’t strong enough to hold most ships solo before they die.
My understanding was that you don’t have to have it on before you warp. It only lasts up to something like 12-13 seconds (with the T2 stab). I havent had to use the new stabs (yet) since the change earlier this year.
IF it turns out they need to be on first before going to warp that makes them like a nullifier and really sucks.
In that case, as mentioned above, align first then hit the stab, then hit warp.
They are mainly used for taking smaller non-combat ships like frigate miners and explorers. Their weak defenses mean nothing when they are used solely as tackle for a more powerful force. That’s the issue. They don’t even need to stick around once the rest of their compatriots arrive or decloak. They merely need to hold a target long enough for their fellows to get a lock; 5s if they are cloaked and already on grid or potentially less if coordinated correctly and they are already in warp within an AU beforehand. There is no in-game counter I’ve been able to conceive beside complete avoidance of any system with unknown player present, which obviously isn’t practical.
A bomber’s purpose is bombing large, mainly capital, ships. But they can also use light missile launchers which require a target lock. A torpedo attack, like light missiles, is standard fare and would not be hampered by a targeting delay. There is zero reason for them to have a lack of targeting delay that I can see. It can be shorter, like 3 seconds, but there should be something.
I spend most of my time in cloaky frigates, so I’ll share some of what I know about them:
If bombers did have a targeting delay, nothing could catch a T2 covops nullified explorer that doesn’t make mistakes. Currently bombers are the only ship that pose a threat to me while exploring and likewise, bombers are my choice if I wanted to catch other explorers in noncombat ships. I think that’s a good game mechanic as in my opinion no activity in space should be completely without risk even when played well.
The bomber’s weak defences means that a more combat capable explorer (combat fit T1 explorer or Astero) poses a real threat to a bomber. And if the explorer is working together with a friend in something combat capable like an Astero, they’ll easily kill the bomber.
Bombers have multiple purposes, their three main purposes are:
They do not only bomb large ships, but also cruiser sized fleets if played well, or themselves if played not so well.
Bombers are also the perfect example of the ‘glass cannon’ type playstyle in EVE. Other games often have a similar role of a class that specialises in maximum damage with very little to no defences, in EVE that’s the (polarised) torpedo bomber. These ships in large fleets can take on capital ships, but in smaller packs they’re also really effective at taking out enemy PvE ships. These smaller fleets are some of my favourite pastimes. To make it easier to invade enemy space we need to take their ADMs down and for that we need to stop them from mining and killing NPC pirates. A small group of bombers is great for that. All you need is one person with a black ops battleship to bridge, and… a hunter with covert cyno.
Hunting is the third of the main roles of bombers, one they excel at. There are a couple of ships you can use for hunting:
T2 exploration frigates are really fast in warp and while moving around on grid while cloaked. Add their ability to be nullified and these are the safest fastest cloaky cyno scouts. Downside: low health, targeting delay, so while they can hunt, they’re not that good at it.
T3 cruisers are a great choice of CovOps hunter for a black ops fleet. Their many unique flexibility of fits allows these ships to be tweaked to be a powerful solo hunter or a fleet hunter with a huge health pool. And they can be nullified! Downside: expensive, targeting delay.
Bombers don’t have a lot of health, but the main reason they’re good hunters is because they have something the others have not: the ability to catch people who are paying attention, because bombers have no targeting delay after decloaking.
Take an enemy who knows how to play the game: whenever he is mining or is killing NPC pirates he does so aligned to an object. And more importantly, he is paying attention. And you want to kill this guy. Plan: you get a bombing fleet together, with a black ops to bridge them all to your covert cyno. You get in position next to your target in your T3C hunter and decloak. He warps off. Wait for it… Now you can target.
How do you kill that player? He’s in space doing things, there must be something to counter his ability to slip through your fingers.
EVE is all about having different tools for different problems. Bombers are the tool for that particular problem.