I’m a big fan of suspect baiting. If you rally up some miners and present them a target, funny things happen when they decide to come back at you with their mission ships
4 Likes
Well… putting it THIS way i can agree with you that this is deterrent for new players. For older ones it is not.
I don’t agree that suspect status is ‘completely inadequate consequences’ for ‘can baiting’ tho 
1 Like
I do miss can baiting.
couldn’t agree more
Never not open fire a week early.
1 Like
I’d say that the sec button was implemented so new players get a warning and are prevented from begging baited into committing acts that would bring a heavy consequence. Because let’s face it, if we could bait people to go suspect we totally would.
The changes in safeties and consequences removed unintuitive punishment. Now, once you go yellow or red you’re being warned there can be consequences. It doesn’t stop new players from getting themselves killed, but at least they can’t say they weren’t warned.
If players quit over these changes then I don’t really care. Adapt or die. If they can’t see that the net result was positive then good riddance.
2 Likes
You’ve described one of its functions. The new players can not do certain things when the button is set to green. the initial response to such a button is that “there’s a reason why these things aren’t allowed”. Changing the button to yellow gives you a warning andenables you to do minor shenanigans. It also puts you into a position, where you will have to suffer from a state which forces you to stay docked or constantly get vaporized. For a new player, suspect state equals GCC, because going outside means inevitable death.
See it from a more historical perspective, as i do. A whole culture built around can-baiting flourished for over a decade. *I am not exaggerating this. A culture built upon new players trying something which ccp once called “brilliant”! The very first theft has a tremendous impact on the person committing the act. Remember that most people don’t steal, but in the game it was perfectly okay to do so, with adequate consequences. And the adrenaline rush of simply thinking about doing it is well worth a mentioning as well!
Such changes affect far more things than could be considered only by looking at one or two details. To fully see the effects, one has to take into account all of EVE’s history and not just minor details it affects superficially. Even if one does that, would that not even change anything about the deterring nature counter to EVE’s own: Dare, so you can win; Learn, so you stop losing
Even if he ignores all deterrents, he will find out that the consequence of his simple theft ends with zero gameplay due to the 15min suspect timer. His options boil down to: constantly exploding, staying docked, a safespot, and logging off! And while that’s fine for an older player, it’s completely wacko for a new player.
Combine all deterrents with the consequences and ignore the reasoning. There is zero evidence that a suspect state and security button impacts the game positively. On the contrary, history shows that these features will only lead to a cultural shift away from a cut-throat environment. And you already know where it shift to! It shifts towards the 
.
I don’t know how to better communicate what horrendous long-term consequences these “features” actually brought and how it literally destroyed a culture which has flourished for over a decade.
- Every time a suspect noob dies, Bob kills a kitten. -
Please, join me in thinking of the kitten. …
2 Likes
Hmm. I actually see what you mean as to how it affects prospective newbro criminals. I’ll have to think more on it. I will say though I rally think people looking to get involved in such nefarious activities are more likely to look into how the mechanics work and ask other criminals meaningful questions.
You mean the new feature that holds one responsible for what they do for 15 mins(cruel hug) and makes them pick their targets better? I like this feature, that keeps them in space long long enough that the victim may have a chance to hunt down the coward that would normally hide in a station and reship… If they were inclined to get a lil payback.
It’s funny, I would love to catch someone that just handed me and pop their pod just to see they spent 50 or a hundred mill on fire power implants. That would be funny. I think it would be fair to have the chance to catch someone after they have been concorded for ganking. After all they may have just cost me a 250m ship and 50mill-bill in implants. They did their worst, I a miner should be given the chance to kick them back.
Yeah, The first thing I’d do if I hurt someone that might come back when better prepared, is go hide from the angry mob with torches and pitchforks in the police station where I’m nice and safe from the justice friends.
At the very least they would be cost something, if it’s just the 15 mins time they hide for the timer to count down. If the ganker was smart, they could just set auto pilot to warp to all the planets in a circle till the timer ran out then docks up and tears. .
One ganks and hides in a station is completely bull crap. A miner makes their choices to mine in an in protected ship, who am I to stop them, but at least they would have their chance to feel better about the experience.
[quote=“Kathern_Aurilen, post:30, topic:6413”]
It’s funny, I would love to catch someone that just handed me and pop their pod just to see they spent 50 or a hundred mill on fire power implants. That would be funny. I think it would be fair to have the chance to catch someone after they have been concorded for ganking. After all they may have just cost me a 250m ship and 50mill-bill in implants. They did their worst, I a miner should be given the chance to kick them back. [/quote]You do. If someone commits a criminal act against you in highsec (and lowsec too for that matter) you earn a kill right. You can go shoot them any time you want for the next 30 days and turn the CONCORD response off. You can also trade or sell that kill right to someone else if you want.
Further, the career criminals are free-to-shoot all the time. You don’t need a kill right at all to shoot. Heck, you don’t even need a very powerful combat ship. If you just manage to tackle them with a warp scrambler or disrupter, the NPC faction police will show up in short order and explode them for you.
This game gives you the chance for revenge, but it will not play the game for you. If you want to hunt criminals you can, but you will have to put in some effort as any other player who hunts another player in this game.
[quote=“Kathern_Aurilen, post:30, topic:6413”]
At the very least they would be cost something, if it’s just the 15 mins time they hide for the timer to count down. If the ganker was smart, they could just set auto pilot to warp to all the planets in a circle till the timer ran out then docks up and tears. . [/quote]There is a cost - they lose both their ship and security status. Plus you earn a kill right on them. Imposing a cost on players for aggression is literally the whole point of CONCORD.
As for the autopilot warping you from planet to planet, I think you should take a refresher course on how that feature works. But regardless of this, I don’t think you will find shooting a ganker’s empty pod a very satisfying experience.
[quote=“Kathern_Aurilen, post:30, topic:6413”]
One ganks and hides in a station is completely bull crap. A miner makes their choices to mine in an in protected ship, who am I to stop them, but at least they would have their chance to feel better about the experience.
[/quote]A miner is generating resources into our shared universe. Therefore they need to be at risk while doing so. Every bit of ore that miner mines makes mine less valuable. Resource generation is the carrot that induces us to put ourselves at risk to the other players.
Piracy does nothing of the sort. At best the criminal might take some resources from another player, but the net effect of this interaction will be a net loss of virtual items in the universe. Some loss always occurs and our shared economy is better for an attempt at piracy whether the pirate succeeds or fails.
I think all you need to feel better about criminality in this game is to adjust your mindset a little. You don’t need to explode pirates to feel better about yourself. You just need to realize that everytime you avoid the pirates, you win, whether that is because you trick them, our-tank them, evade them, or explode them. As long as you get your ore safely to station, you have beaten the criminals and the details don’t matter. The rabbit doesn’t beat the wolf by storming the wolf’s den with a machine gun and murdering the wolf pack. The rabbit wins by dashing into its burrow, or not being seen in the first place, munching that carrot and laughing at the failed attempts of the predator to catch them.
But if you want to be a wolf, there is nothing stopping you. Get a combat ship and stalk the gankers and pounce when you see your opportunity.
Now as to the OP, highsec is in some of the best shape it’s been in a while. Non-compliant mining of all sorts, including AFK mining is way down, as is bad behaviour like auto-piloting. Invulnerable highsec industrial POSes are weeks away from stopping being a thing, and in general highsec residents are of a better calibre than say, five years ago, and more accepting of emergent game play. There is much more work to be done of course, but I think nullsec is much more of concern these days now that highsec has caretakers keeping things in order.
But content is content and if someone wants to organize a dedicated campaign of destruction in highsec then have at it. Given the stagnation in nullsec, it may be soon be a expeditious way to generate content and spend some of that excess of riches. How many Catalysts-worth of resources can a Rorqual mine in a hour anyway?
1 Like
[quote=“Black_Pedro, post:31, topic:6413”]
A miner is generating resources into our shared universe. Therefore they need to be at risk while doing so. Every bit of ore that miner mines makes mine less valuable. Resource generation is the carrot that induces us to put ourselves at risk to the other players.
[/quote]yes a is injecting resources into the game, and yes we do risk our ships and our haul doing it. Plus I have survived a few gank attempts and managed to steal their gear from the results of concordadoken, in a properly tanked barge.
All I’m saying is that if they gank, and if we want revenge all I want is a chance to do it. I just want more than the 3 second window to ship up and splat their pod back.
Most career miner gankers are funded, there ships and fits are very cheep or free to them, they are reimbursed for their lose. Hauler gankers risk money with a chance of making nothing. [quote=“Black_Pedro, post:31, topic:6413”]
As for the autopilot warping you from planet to planet, I think you should take a refresher course on how that feature works. But regardless of this, I don’t think you will find shooting a ganker’s empty pod a very satisfying experience.
[/quote]i under stand setting a bunch of waypoints, be it planets or safe points, in a system, a moving target is much harder to scan down than a stationary pod sitting at a safe point, plus the 10 to 20 seconds at subwarp will only cause frustration in scanning down some thing like a pod. Just when getting close to a lock, the scan has to be reset back to system wide.
I’m just saying the rabbit can bite back given more than a second or two to be ready.
having thought about responding to the actual topic, i believe i came up with an opinion i hope at least some will share. it’s weird… usually i keep my thoughts to myself, because the audience lacks the ability to read through even a few pages of a book before their attention span collapses and sends their minds on its merry way, not forgetting to insult me for reminding them of their simple mindedness. i suspect that, in here, things can be different.
Plus, i’ve been watching George Carlin and it shows a bit. 
A new Hulkageddon style event would be a PR disaster. the last thing people should want is fueling the fire that’s burning under their collective assets, like barbarians only capable of thinking about one thing and one thing only. Killing for Fun. Sure, that’s alright! i’m not anyone to say it’s not! Though at some point one has to ask himself what actually matters, right? Is my selfish desire really the best for my community? what long term goals do i have to better our situation?
Don’t run yet another killing event. it’s a waste of time, energy, virtual resources and doesn’t achieve anything but feeding the egos of those who enjoy other people’s misery. Sure, it’s fun to shoot ■■■■, but that’s not the same thing! What’s more important? My short term fun, or everyone’s lasting negative consequences?
Don’t run yet another killing event! it serves no purpose for getting your subculture out of it’s grave! if you want to get together to do something, then do something that doesn’t help killing your own damn game!
and hey, i’m not just criticizing here! i actually have an idea, too!
and it’s not about killing people, hell no!
it’s about making other people kill people or do otherwise nasty things ! (
)
anyone who now thinks “effort” is a part of the 
problem you guys have, because you’re a breed that slowly goes extinct. and people who “want to go to the darkside” aren’t the target! they aren’t and shouldn’t be, because they’ll come anyway. the really interesting ones are those who lay dormant and sleeping, until woken up by one simple kiss.
The Kiss of Adrenaline.
And that’s the idea.
If there’s anyone left who isn’t complstely apathetic about what’s going on (there’s “being disheartened”, ofc, but there’s also “being well-fed, isk- and shipwise”; sorry, but too often the well-fed don’t give a 
about anyone but themselves), then challenge yourselves to a contest about who brings in the most new blood by getting them hooked on adrenaline!
don’t spoil them with isk, though, else you just create yet another well-fed zombie. let them work for it, like everyone should be.
proof can easily be supplied by video, audio, mails, killboard, API, letting them write a story and having them post it in C&P! Whatever the hell it is, what matters is that the Sir and or Madam gets hooked on the adrenaline, because that’s how you hook people! Drugs! and it’s fair game, too! they can’t ban you for getting people addicted to their own adrenaline!
CCP has got nothing on you compared to the deeply reaching addiction you guys can provide!
They can’t give players the shakes like you can! They don’t convince a hesitant player to hunt down and shoot his asshole corpmate, or infect their minds with some actual freedom, saying “why would you waste hours mining, when you can just take it from someone who drops it?” CCP can’t teach them to hunt a real target and get excited about it! You can!
The core elements are easy to grasp and it’s simple enough to see how it works out as i say it does. i’m repeating myself when i say that yet another killing event is not a good idea and certainly does nothing for your community as a whole. On the contrary!
Be Mentors to all those who yet have no idea that they actually want this.
And let the best mentors win.
What a weird day today.
vOv
PS: don’t ever advertise promising adrenaline or excitement. especially regarding adrenaline, people’s minds will be put into a state of expectation, preventing the actually most important part.
and now i’ll wait for the power outage to end…
o7
2 Likes
Why are people whining about suspect status in this thread?
Let’s go kill some miners!
1 Like
yes yes go kill the miners, scourage of the universe. that’s not stopping the producers that delivering more ships than you could ever hope to kill
What?
1 Like
Good luck dealing with that though. NPC stations in high are 100% untouchable, and even the EC’s mostly don’t get blown up much in high. And while you can certainly do something about the stuff out in Null, you’ll only nail what is in the current production queues as everything else safeties on out to elsewhere. All the while being shot at by the party you are interfering with and their allies typically. At which point, what are you really getting out of it?
Being able to actually do something about that at a far easier threshold would require some fundamental restructuring of the game. And the whine threads would be monumental in scope.
Realistically you should just focus on nailing the miners and haulers serving your target to force their costs of production and import up. Because as it currently stands small scale manufacturing is too stupidly hard to interfere with with how asset safety currently works. Affecting the almost never un-docked industry player is much easier by proxy or spai than anything else. Though if you have stupid amounts of isk to burn you could also play at market manipulation for a bit, but with how many people are sitting on various stockpiles that would be quite hard to maintain for a serious length of time.
[quote=“Xuixien, post:34, topic:6413”]
Why are people whining about suspect status in this thread?
[/quote]im just saying that if miners had the chance to pot the pod of a ganker I think there would be far less miner whine in the forums.
Throw away ships are one thing, but hunting down a pod of a ganker would be far more satisfying. Plus that may get them more into pop. I personally have never popped a pod.
Miners have a chance to pop the pod of gankers, just as miners have a chance to stop their pod getting popped by gankers (should they be non-compliant enough to get ganked in the first place). Gankers have been podded by miners.
All you have to do is take the chance that you have.
You should try it sometime. It’s like one of this eggs with a surprise inside. You never know what you get. Always shoot dem eggs!
3 Likes
what I was referring to instead of the miners is go back to nailing the freighters loaded to the brim with the goods, a lot of big producers buy their minerals to produce ships and modules. with the massive load of minerals on the market, prices wont move, and theres already producers with years of built ships and modules sitting in hangers that have been taken or set on the market.