“CCP was quoted as saying they wanted EVE to be much more than a spaceship game”
This quote belongs to another time mate. This is objectively not the case anymore.
I love McDonald’s. They give eaters exactly what eaters want. I get pissed as hell when I go to another eatery, and they don’t let me buy a Big Mac. Are they stupid? Look at how many customers McDonald’s has; tens of millions of people eating their food every day. And I go to your shitty restaurant, and you can’t give me a Quarter Pounder with cheese? It’s time for these crappy mom-and-pop restaurants to understand that their model just doesn’t work. They need to change their menus to offer the McDonald’s items that customers expect and demand. No one wants your non-consensual kale or zucchini noodles or baked salmon!
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You can have cheap food, or you can have good food; rarely do these things meet.
And what eaters want is to be massively obese with children that have type 1 diabetes.
Or so I believe from looking at the order lines and drive-through in a random selection of McDonald’s photos.
Mr Epeen 
Change the 3rd word to EVE and the same works.
EVE actually has far more boring missions, far more RNG loot and when it comes to exploiting gambling addiction - haha - hello Hypernet.
EVE has just as many addiction mechanics as the next game.
EVE actually has a far greater tendency to offer daily log in incentives than WoW does - be it event rewards, SKIN rewards, booster rewards or skill point rewards.
Even WoW does not have 7 day log in bonuses and daily log in bonuses and 150,000 skill point bonuses for repeated log ins. They are in Black Desert Online though (waves to Pearl Abyss).
I wonder why you can’t see this? Is it some kind of ego thing where you have to believe you belong to a superior niche / clique? Because you really do not.
Have you met mining?
There’s nothing to assume here, its success speaks for itself.
Their guaranteed customer base is tiny.
They’re going to continue to try to draw in what you probably consider to be fans of trash, because that’s where the greater numbers can be found. They might not succeed of course, you’re right there. I don’t think they will. They would need to water EVE down considerably to draw in the masses. A mobile version would be a good start there.
… oh wait.
But this doesn’t work according to your logic because person A isn’t person B.
As you portray it, a fan of McDonalds or a fan of WoW is a fan of ‘that kind of thing’ (trash) and by strong implication can’t also be a fan of (what you consider to be) a good game or good food.
While you suggest that the world is made up of either EVE fans or ‘them’ / the ‘other’ type of person, this is of course not actually the case.
The logic behind your argument kinda crumbles if someone can be equally into both.
Except it doesn’t.
Your example of mining, mining is not some low level content you slog through. It simply is there, and you do it or don’t do it, you don’t have to do it in order to level up to the next tier of industry.
This is substantially different from the WoW model where you get a tier of gear and you use it to get the next tier that you use to get the next tier and then a new expansion comes out with 4 more tiers of gear.
Why can’t they?
There is nothing wrong with liking two different things at the same time. I play other games than EVE, I like them, usually for different reasons than I like EVE.
What Merin appears to be talking about however is the people who come to EVE and want it to be WOW instead. That is the problem person, because they get upset and tantrum that EVE is not WOW and that it should be more like WOW to attract all these mythical players that just want to play EVE if it was more like WOW.
And that is bad and not a market CCP should follow.
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We weren’t talking about the leveling system in WoW.
We were talking boring content, RNG, gambling and addiction mechanics.
It wasn’t I that said they couldn’t.
I think both of your assertions about what Merin and I were talking about are wrong. You’re certainly not talking about what I was talking to Merin about.
You… do get that the gear grind cycle is a massive part of MMO addiction mechanics right… (Edit for a missing word)
Nor did Merin. So your entire argument there was either implying you believed that A can’t also be B, or an utter straw man argument just to pick a fight with Merin, you pick which of those two it was.
This is a different conversation and not the one we were having.
I’m not interested in this aspect. It’s not what we were discussing.
I disagree. Although not explicitly said but strongly implied - to use my actual words and not the ones you think you read.
I’m not sure why you think I need a 3rd party interpreter to come along and re-write the conversation I was having with someone else but I really don’t, especially as you’re not even getting the basics right.
Ironic that you have jumped in to a conversation that doesn’t involve you and then attempted to throw your weight around in what looks like nothing more than just wanting to pick a fight with me, lol
I’m not interested in talking about these other matters with you. You’re not on topic. I was interested in what Merin said. I’m not interested in your attempt to re-write the conversation based on your misunderstanding or your attempts to pick a fight.
The topic is what players want.
Discussing how things like gear cycles & levelling mechanics are addiction mechanics used to keep players interested in a game is certainly part of that.
As is pointing out exactly why your claim that EVE is the same as WOW is totally wrong.
But no, please do throw a “I’m not having this conversation with you” tantrum. It’s quite ok, and really makes my point quite well.
It is because he is the ceo of ccp, and does promote the dark triad of psychological states for gaming. he always argues that its the only way for this game to succeed, while those of us with more experience in the industry tell him there is a middle ground eve could go to that would help it improve and gain people.
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The problem Nevyn, is that these are all really “patches” to the real issue (overly lengthy times to get in ships). All of these “patches” are really a grab at money because of the low population, but the truth is if it just fixes the initial problem (reducing time to get in ships) they would gain people which would fix the income issues. Lots of people = lots of income, yet ccp is trying to increase income with current people ignorant and ignoring the fact that player base only has so much money for such gimmick systems.
its like watching people grasp at straws to not drown.
As always, this is not a problem, because it does not take lengthy times to get in ships, nor are large ships a requirement to play EVE. But continue to tell a competitor how they should run their game, I’m sure you only have their best interests at heart and want all your players to flock to EVE as you improve it. (This is assuming we believe your previous claims in other threads of course, and don’t just think you are a narcissistic liar.)
Lets look at this.
36 hours standard industry form start to finish
vs 6 months of training for various ships.
Yea im gona go with, “your wrong” on this.
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There were specific aspects of that topic that Merin and I were discussing.
You are not talking about the same thing. You don’t even understand what I was talking about. You don’t understand to such a degree that I’m quite positive that I don’t even want to begin to try to talk to you.
For example:
This is misunderstanding to such a ridiculous degree that it’s laughable, and why it’s not always a good thing to jump into someone else’s conversation. Your conclusion here that I am the one arguing for what I was actually the one arguing against means you either didn’t read what I wrote, didn’t understand what I wrote or simply jumped in to troll and pick a fight. Whichever of those is true doesn’t really matter, the net result is I have no interest in talking to.
If you want to call that throwing a tantrum that’s fine.
Now, I can repeat I’m not interested in talking to you as often as necessary until you get the message or you could stop wasting my time / being a troll and find someone else to talk to. You pick.
You jumped on a post Merin was making to someone else and Merin replied to you once.
Stop pretending like you were having some highbrow conversation over gold plated china.
A: CItation required for industry standards. That is not “I’m a Developer”.
B: Citation required for 6 months of training so we can see that you picked one of the longest possible trains you could in order to make an absurd argument.
C: 6 months can be 36 hours play time in EVE. 36 hours playtime can be 6 months in another MMO. You are trying to compare real time vs time in game as a direct comparison here.
The two are inherently linked. WoW’s leveling system is what makes its RNG and addiction mechanics have no end. RNG forces you to keep farming to attempt to make any progress, and the leveling system ensures that even if you somehow reach your goal by the time you do Blizzard has added another tier of goals that you need to grind towards.
Contrast that with EVE, where all progress is effectively RNG-free. Skills accumulate at a flat rate, mining/missions/etc all pay fixed values, and the vast majority of items are made by player industry with minimal RNG factor. The only time RNG is relevant is with certain high-end items that have very little relevance to everyday gameplay.
You are a ****ing idiot if you actually believe this.
PS: it is obvious to everyone that you have zero industry experience and are a shameless liar.
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It really doesn’t. EVE doesn’t have WoW’s RNG-driven treadmill at all, its boring content is mostly a side thing and not the main draw of the game, and hypernet/skins/etc are all widely hated concepts brought in for the new F2P cash shop era to move EVE in a more WoW-like direction.
While you suggest that the world is made up of either EVE fans or ‘them’ / the ‘other’ type of person, this is of course not actually the case.
I suggest no such thing, you just don’t understand the difference between individual players and market trends. EVE players and WoW players are different markets even if there are some players in both groups.
Send me your shares, and I’ll double them.
Boy do I (kinda) have good news for you!