What do players want?

Communications Center General Discussion
391

I don’t think that’s true.

Again, not true.

The RNG on missions, chance of escalation, chance of Dread Gurista spawn, chance of Pithi C Type worth 300m dropping etc etc is huge.

Vets in Tech II battleships spend hours farming Hideaways and Refuges in the hope of triggering an escalation in the hope of good loot inside a Scout Outpost satellite building. I’ve watched EVE YouTubers (partners even) spend hours grinding Combat Sites waiting for the RNG fairy to be kind enough to a) give them an escalation and then b) give them good loot in that escalation.

That’s a double dose of RNG right there in a game you’re saying doesn’t have RNG?

Mind numbing boring content with outcomes entirely dependent on RNG.

Exploring is also notoriously RNG.

Grinding the same content over and over while praying to the loot fairy is just as much a thing in EVE. In fact WoW actually has far more systems in place where you can reliably do X content for Y reward.

In comparable elements of gameplay EVE is far more RNG.

This is when they release a new expansion, maybe every 1-2 years at most. EVE on the other hand is an ISK treadmill that is never ending and very subject to RNG.

The fact that you even can ‘reach your goal’ in WoW is contrasted with EVE where sure, there isn’t a goal (except for the ones that the players set for themselves) but the very absence of a goal inevitably leads to players grinding away on an ISK treadmill.

The majority of the EVE playerbase does nothing but grind. It’s ISK online. Multiboxing fleets of miners / ratters pressing F1 for hours while WoW players are raiding, questing and getting rewards. There is very little Gold obsession in WoW compared to the ISK obsession in EVE.

Not sure of your overall point here, but if it’s that there is more grinding in WoW and that grinding is more boring in WoW, then I strongly don’t believe either is true. The EVE grind is so mind numbingly boring it’s mostly been reduced to semi-automated semi-AFK (or entirely AFK) multiboxed alt fleets. This is EVE fact. No one is going to dispute that EVE isnt full of low input, low activity grinding.

392

I said it’s effectively RNG free, and it is. Faction/officer loot plays essentially zero role in everyday EVE gameplay, the vast majority of ships and items are T1/T2 and come directly from player industry with minimal RNG. Contrast this with WoW, where all endgame gear comes from RNG farming and has “bind on pick up” restrictions to force you to RNG it yourself instead of buying it on the market.

In comparable elements of gameplay EVE is far more RNG.

And that’s a ridiculous comparison. WoW is built primarily on its RNG elements, EVE’s RNG elements are a small part of the game and easily avoided.

EVE on the other hand is an ISK treadmill that is never ending and very subject to RNG.

Only if you fail to understand how EVE works and think that the end goal is to have the biggest wallet number. Meanwhile the people having fun in EVE are the ones who participate in the PvE grind only when absolutely necessary and spend most of their time doing other things. The people who view EVE as an endless PvE grind are the ones who level up their Raven to do level 4 missions, get bored, and quit within the first month or two.

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393

Darn it Merin, you are breaking the golden forum rule again, you and I are meant to disagree!

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394

Everything I have seen leads me to believe this is how the majority play EVE, from PLEX purchases to turn into ISK, to all the ISK grinding guides, the tedious mission running, the vast seas of ratting and mining alt fleets to incursions et al - it’s all to earn ISK.

It’s all to increase wallet size.

Most of CCPs recent changes seem to be designed to fix this ridiculous overabundance and obsession with wallet size. Maybe you’re not obsessed with your wallet size but for me 90% of the EVE playerbase is.

Maybe. Perhaps that takes us full circle back to why this thread was started in the first place. People do come to EVE, decide it’s all about grinding for ISK, get bored and quit.

You might think you’re in the majority as someone who puts fun before ISK and doesn’t grind but in my experience that makes you one of the lucky few. I don’t play an EVE where I am not surrounded by ISK obsessed grinders with 10 alts in ratting / mining fleets who can’t hold a conversation outside of ‘I earned X ISK today’.

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395

Yes. And what you don’t understand (or care about?) is the reason why they do this. People come to EVE expecting a game like WoW, try to play it like WoW, and then when they don’t find the WoW-with-spaceships game they wanted to play they go back to grinding in WoW. But that doesn’t make EVE a RNG-driven PvE grind like WoW.

But now we’ve completely departed from the original post you replied to, about how Blizzard produces poor quality games that make tons of money primarily because they exploit addictive behavior and poor impulse control.

396

I want CCP to stop penalizing folks who purchase omega accounts on a yearly basis. Multiple times per year there are incentives for folks to buy 30 days of omega to get additional plex, skins, etc.

It’s unclear to me what happens if an annual omega account pays for 30 days of omega. Does the annual billing cycle bump back a month?

It would be nice for some of these incentives to be given to annual subscribers automatically.

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397

But you try to make this sound like that’s somehow WoW’s fault for being bad.

It’s EVE’s fault for being bad.

PvE in EVE is appalling. Level 1, 2 and 3 Missions are insanely boring and any decent reward is entirely RNG based. That’s extremely off-putting for new players.

Exploration is incredibly RNG and that’s extremely off-putting for new players.

Mining is mind-numbingly boring and that’s extremely off-putting for new players.

These are the top 3 things that new players do. Either stupidly RNG or stupidly boring, or both.

What has WoW actually got to do with that?

What I listed above does though.

For new players EVE is more than RNG enough to be off-putting. I’ve watched EVE partners get sick of the RNG grind live on stream yet alone new players. If for some reason you don’t do anything RNG in EVE good for you, but there is a crap ton of RNG in EVE.

New player retention isn’t a problem because of which other game they came from. It’s a problem because it’s an EVE problem. WoW being bad in your opinion doesn’t make EVE good just because EVE isn’t WoW.

It really doesn’t have anything to do with WoW. I don’t actually know why you’re obsessed with the WoW comparison because it really doesn’t work. People don’t come to EVE expecting a game like WoW, they come to EVE expecting a good new player experience - and EVE doesn’t have a good new player experience.

Well you conveniently skipped over Hypernet and log in rewards and daily rewards and Omega rewards and all of the Black Desert Online ways in which EVE does exactly what you accuse WoW of so …

In my first 15 minutes in EVE today I was given 3 different daily rewards for showing up.

I won’t get that if I log into WoW.

I will get that if I log into Black Desert Online.

398

It will just add another month to the expiry date of your current subscription.

399

No, it’s not WoW’s fault. WoW is a terrible game but the fault lies with the people who don’t research EVE before trying it.

PvE in EVE is appalling.

Who cares? EVE is a PvP game with token PvE elements. The fact that new players come in and get caught in a PvE grind instead of playing the real game is unfortunate, but the last thing CCP should do is throw away their core market to pander to people who want a WoW-style PvE grind.

Exploration is incredibly RNG

I don’t think you understand what RNG is. WoW-style RNG is that the item your character requires to be viable has a 1% chance of dropping from a specific boss that requires a 40 man group to defeat, forcing you to farm it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. That is not in any way comparable to how exploration rewards vary somewhat based on RNG but still predictably give you good ISK over time.

WoW being bad in your opinion doesn’t make EVE good just because EVE isn’t WoW.

Could you please stop building straw man arguments? That has nothing to do with anything I said.

Well you conveniently skipped over Hypernet and log in rewards and daily rewards and Omega rewards and all of the Black Desert Online ways in which EVE does exactly what you accuse WoW of so …

Oh look, more straw man arguments. The post you replied to was about Noori’s idiotic fanboying over Blizzard, not EVE, so the fact that CCP’s new F2P owners have pushed terrible mechanics into EVE is irrelevant.

PS: some of us hated every one of those changes as soon as they were announced and believe that the people responsible should be fired.

400

Plenty of EVE players can and do play it as exactly the opposite.

For new players especially (and I remind you we are in a thread asking what new players want) PvE is the bulk of their starter experience.

So my comments about the EVE new player experience being off-putting stand and your attempt to shift us over to PvP is kinda redundant.

WoW raid rewards vary somewhat based on RNG but still predictably give you good items over time.

It’s becoming obvious that a) you don’t know a lot about WoW and b) think WoW is the root of all evil.

I think this is little more than a thinly veiled WoW bash with little of actual substance and nothing that explains how anything about WoW being so terrible (in your opinion) makes EVE any better.

Anytime I prove EVE does the same or worse you skip over that part or do this:

You specifically mentioned these things as not existing in EVE. You raised them as subjects, not me. Now they are my straw man arguments when I prove you wrong?

Ooookay.

I see how this works.

:upside_down_face:

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401

None of your straw man spam has anything to do with the post you jumped in to reply to, which was purely a criticism of Naari/Noori/Neeri/whatever’s idiotic Blizzard fanboying. Even if you can prove that EVE is worse than WoW it doesn’t change the fact that WoW is a terrible game.

And yes, they are straw man arguments when you blow them way out of proportion in EVE, minimize them in WoW, and attack a bunch of stuff I never said.

402

That depends on what you classify as PvE and PvP, furthermore PvE rewards generally end up on the market in one way or another; which is most definitely a PvP environment that almost every player interacts with.

For new players especially (and I remind you we are in a thread asking what new players want) PvE is the bulk of their starter experience.

The thread title says otherwise, there’s no mention of new players in it.

Yeah, PvE is the bulk of new player gameplay; the reality of ingame politics is responsible for that. CCP already know that player retention is increased if a new player is recruited by one of the larger organisations that show them the possibilities of EvE.

However CCP can’t replicate that with the NPE because it can’t supply the key ingredient, player interactions. In order to do that the NPE would have to point new players in the direction of groups that are known to retain new players; and that’s where the politics happen because no matter who they directed new players to, someone would get all upset about it.

403

Yeah well they should do it anyway and screw the jealous jellies

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404

You’re hiding behind this like a coward.

Everything I’ve said has been in direct response to something said by you first.

There is no ‘attack a bunch of stuff I never said’. You simply can’t defend the ‘bunch of stuff’ you said so you’re deflecting.

Weak.

The title is not the substance. The OP makes repeated reference to new players.

405

And your responses were an attempt to derail the criticism of WoW into a defense of EVE. Please stop doing that.

There is no ‘attack a bunch of stuff I never said’.

Stop lying.

406

The really funny thing is wow these days…is a pvp game. YOu spam this to get your 197 gear. to make the raider IO/ilevel people happy to then run the pve you’d like like mythic key pushes.

Then you spam the rated pvp to get conquest gear to go over 200.

So you will die may times in wow to get there. Its like Uedama but its not. You can tell a noob to not even jump a gate there. A fresh wow 60? Off to the BG’s you go my friend. Just take your butt whooping from a 210+ ilevel. We all do…hope your side wins for more points since you will be a in graveyard most of the time.

Dungeon and raid? hahahahahaha, many of wow carebears find the pvp bug. its about the only way to get a weapon not RNG. RNG sure as hell doesn’t drop it for many.

407

and yet i am in a senior position on a game that eve could not even dream of touching. How interesting?

408

If you actually were, then you would be operating so far in conflicts of interest posting here the way you do, the boot out the door would send you half way around the world.
So, no, I don’t believe you.

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409

Fixed that for you.

410

I’ve never agreed with that logic. It seems to exist entirely in EVE.

I think it’s something to do with the niche / clique image that EVE players try to project and protect - EVE - a game that is ‘more PvP’ than any other game.

I’ve played plenty of other MMOs where you sell your items on a Market in direct competition with players, but only in EVE does anyone call that PvP.

In the other games PvP is something you switch on in order to fight other players or something that gets enabled in certain zones or at certain levels, not using the market which you have been doing since level 1.

/shrug