Just to put my hand in the blender;
Are any of those games ones with dynamic markets? As in, are they central to the game or just a convenience?
This is more about what the base conditions of the game are. When it comes to designing games, in general you cannot change some specific parts of it, and pvp is one of them. The game was initially designed in a consensual pvp environment. People make a concious choice to be part of that, and eve was born.
I am not Advocating removing that, but intelligent designers who design such games are away that over half the population are not pvp inclined, and just over half of that value (or 33-38% (in wows case around 36%) do not pvp at all)). As such designers of said games often create systems to stop abuse of pvers who do not want to do pvp. Which is not the case in eve.
Look at ashes of creation for example in its pvp design, also an consensual pvp environment. However, being the intelligent designers they are have recognized this issue from a business perspective and are / have created a criminal system to stop the repeated abuse of people, a system that could theoretically work in eve, however, could not in its current setting.
Why do i say that? because a criminal system like that exists already in place in eve, its the standings system. The problem is there is an “exception” to that rule, which is highly problematic for the game itself, in terms of depending on that criminal system to help high sec, and that exception is war declarations.
So in effect, the way in which war declarations and how they are declared would have to be changed, in effort for such a mechanic to take over as a sort of balance system to high sec.
I am open to discussion the rework on what makes a corp eligible to pvp and it would be interesting to work that into the standing systems. for example if mission corps were more difficult to declare war on. Out side of that i’d probably just advocate for requiring mutual wars to be able to attack in high sec.
What i will say is it would be more beneficial for eve to change up the low sec in a way that makes it behave as it was intended to, which is to encourage people to progress out into null. Its never functionally worked like that as low sec has pretty much held a position for pirates, and those that could not handle null.
This is why my suggestion to change pirate ships to require specific standings with their factions ( and a negative sec status on the character based on the class of ship) , then creating a module to “steal” (range transport) things from peoples cargo, on top of that would be a great move for the game.
The reason is because it would shift low sec into being like high sec but opting for a less lethal and more pirate natured zone, where optimal isk farming in that area would be about stealing, not killing effectively enabling pirates to min-max isk in a non-lethal way which was one of the ways players themselves could venture out with less risk to their over all wealth.
any changes to high secs pvp enviroment needs to seriously consider what will happen to low sec, and ultimately the high sec “griefer” (ie gank you for stuff) players.
ps. A quick change of mechanics in high sec to not drop any loot on ship destruction from another player, or shifting it to scale based on security status (the lower, the more likely loot drops) would be the most easy, fundamental way to fixing high sec pvp.
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What difference would that make?
Nothing you can do in a market, central to the game or otherwise, is PvP in the traditional gaming sense of the term. I get it’s PvP in the extremely pedantic ‘desk jockey wanting to feel big and clever in EVE’ sense of the term, but that’s what I don’t agree with.
It would be laughed at in most other MMOs I play(ed).
It makes me laugh and grind my teeth in equal measure whenever I hear someone in EVE trying to call selling a Rifter on the market PvP.
It’s competitive trading maybe.
PvP is something else entirely in my book.
Well it makes every difference.
Makes a difference between whether profitting from it is a matter of out performing another person or whether you are selling to a seeded buy order.
I guess you dont trade as a profession in game or in real life. vOv
It doesn’t make any at all.
How do you outperform another person and how does that even matter?
Is wallet size a win over someone with a smaller wallet size?
In that case a PLEX purchase for real cash is winning at PvP in EVE?
You’re a pro EVE PvPer because you have a credit card?
We tell people all the time that there is no P2W in EVE because there is no win. You can’t win in the market. You can tell yourself you’re winning something if that makes you feel big and clever, but in reality person A is selling their stuff and person B is selling theirs. Neither won anything.
Person A hasn’t even necessarily lost out in any way because of person B’s activities. Potentially they both sold their items for the same price at the same time to different buyers. There are plenty of buyers to go around and there’s lots of demand.
If anyone thinks they won some kind of market PvP ‘fight’ because they sold their item first or for 10 more ISK I would consider them a very sad individual.
Sure if there was only 1 buyer at any given time and person A sold their product while person B did not, we could call that a win. The EVE market is far too saturated with a constant supply of buyers and sellers for that to happen though.
There is never 1 buyer.
Most people don’t directly trade vs others in a competitive PvP sense.
I run a business. We offer a service, people pay us money. We have no interest in what anyone else is selling the same service for or who else is offering the same service, because we have enough customers and make enough money.
I could, if I wanted to look at that differently and declare myself to be in PvP competition with other businesses offering the same service. I think that would just be me blowing smoke up my own ass though.
Same is true with the EVE market.
If I sell what I want to sell for the price I’m happy with, and so does the next guy, we’re all happy. There really isn’t any fighting.
It’s just a silly attempt to glamourize clicking buy or sell into something of far more consequence with an action / conflict element it doesn’t really have. Makes it seem so much less mundane. I get it.
Regardless of all of the above, PvP is players physically fighting each other in combat where I come from, always has been. The market will never be PvP in my book.
Here’s the thing: Eve was originally designed to be a PVP-sandbox. Nowhere has it been stated to be consensual. If you play Eve, you have to accept the fact that your stuff can be blown up by other players.
OK if you want to pretend you dont know what the word “competitive” when placed beside “market” means, you go for it.
At least genuine ignorance can be helped.
Answer the question?
If it’s PvP how do you win?
You just dodged every point I made in favour of suggesting I just don’t get it ‘because dumb’.
Low class ‘discussion’ Ramona. Very poor effort.
Usually when people ignore a whole load of valid points and resort to insults instead of answers it’s because they haven’t got a valid answer.
Surely you can do better than just declaring it to be PvP because you say it is?
If not, then it isn’t because I say it isn’t.
Which is what I just received from you, so yeah, I agree there.
Ta ta o/
Player versus Player does not necessary mean combat, on the market it can have multiple meanings, forcing your competition out, gaining complete monopoly in some region, manipulating prices for your profit… Your lack of imagination doesn’t mean there’s no warfare on markets.
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Not at all, because you didn’t provide a whole list of valid points.
You just got back what you gave.
You didn’t do me the same courtesy.
You’re getting crap at forum PvP in your old age Ramona. You used to be sharper than this.
No, because I read the post before mine before I wrote anything, which has not been the case for your last three.
Otherwise you wouldnt have written
when I stated nothing of the sort. In fact, I said the opposite. With that little attention you paid, what was the point in carrying on? To have an argument about the definition of a “fact” again? Yawn.
You must be hung over if your trolling is this obvious even to me.
This is pure imagination though, this doesn’t happen.
There’s far too much supply and demand and far too many buyers and sellers in EVE for this kind of thing to happen.
Again if having more ISK is a PvP win then a credit card is the ultimate PvP tool in EVE. Wallet size isn’t a win condition in my version of EVE.
Or your overabundance of imagination is the only thing allowing you to turn the simple act of buying and selling on an in-game market, as players do in so many games, into an action / combat based PvP activity.
I know which one I pick.
You went the whole ‘ignorance’ route instead of addressing any of my points.
See:
Don’t play dumb.
Low grade troll.
Because you are pretending to be dumb just to troll.
Just like you are doing now.
So yeah, what ever you say, Im really not interested in discussing the meaning of the word “the”, thank you.
Not everyone suck at trading buddy.
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Or you’re pretending I’m pretending to be dumb so you don’t have to answer any of my points?
Whatever works for getting you out of having to back up anything you say I guess.
Handy.
Ditto. We agree on that.
Not interesting in your version of ‘discussing’ anything either.
WHy do I want to waste time on that when you are making them just to troll me?
Its bad enough Im still replying.
If I thought you actually wanted to talk about this Id be more than happy to, but your “because I decided it” really is about as convincing as this photograph of Dick Ward signed by Dick York I have in my wallet.
I imagine if you’re a trader you have to glamourize it into something exciting and deadly and edgy instead of it being the mundane snorefest that it actually is.
Oh to be a master market PvPer. I think I’d die from over excitement.
FTFY
Please stop pretending excitment or interest is relevent to any form of EvE PvP