The players that want high sec to be safe can’t see farther than 3 inches in front of their face and have no concept of the bigger picture. They only know that they want to be safe, and that’s all they care about, rest of the game be damned…
There would be fleets of Orcas and Hulks decending upon every belt, ice anomaly, and moon in high sec. The resource market for those ores and minerals would crash overnight because there would be ten thousand players all mining it in perfect safety. The more you have of something, the less it is worth. Simple supply and demand economics.
And that’s only one small part of what would be affected…
Pro-gankers, pro-hi-sec PvP are by far the highest post count in any derailed thread. Generally you’ll find about 4 or more of them arguing with one Lucas-type, and they’re generally the first ones to toss out the insults and denigration.
I must say, I really feel for this dead horse…(pvp vs pve, safety vs dangerous, elite vs noob)
Putting that aside though,
I would reword this part to
“A rethink of how and why players play, and a true incentive for people to play cooperatively”
I don’t claim I have the definitive answer, and there’s no definitive answer, we only make suggestions and I’ll admit these suggestions mostly would be biased to how one play or wish to play the game. Hence the discussion and hopefully, constructive and overall game-beneficial suggestions that might eventually make its way to release and let players judge whether the changes are success or failure.
So below is part of my input, nobody has to agree with it, it’s purely an individual’s opinion and wish.
Eve has to be “Dynamic”, this is plain clear why stagnation is here, like I said, the game is already solved in its current state, so no matter how you change the numbers on either side of the equation, it remained solved as long as the underlying formulae stays the same. Dev scripted events does not cut it, if it’s a true sandbox, players must have a way and means in game to influence the activity gate, namely “System Security Status”, Borders, Territory of the majority of the New Eden must be designed to be able to move, not just in player claimable regions but rather in the entire K-S. Be it through War, Diplomacy, Corporation Influence, Espionage…a careful re-design of the whole system. Imagine the amount of new gameplay possibilities.
Remove deprecated mechanics and design decisions, for starters, PI needs to go, it was envisioned that PI will have meaningful planetary interaction in War on the Ground in association with DUST514, given DUST’s retirement a decade ago, PI serves no meaningful purpose except another layer of complication and tedious gameplay, another activity gate.
Bring back gun-mining, buff salvage in some way, because I like looting and make useful things out of junk, as to how to balance the material sink, that’s what game devs need to do rather than being lazy and remove most of it altogether.
Reduce the inflated PLEX / Omega prices in store, for an MMO, Eve is kinda on the higher cost per month end of the scale, with cost of living crisis in many parts of the world, it doesn’t seem to help.
Being an MMO doesn’t mean people must be forced to play together, I like to be able to hire NPC officers and have a small roaming party of my own, player supply the ships and thus bear the cost, KM count on the player, NPC pilot skill is capped and player can only hire certain amount of them depending on skills. ← I admit, even CCP would see this suggestion as taking their milk cow away as it seemly discourages alts, but really…it would be FUN for players that like the same type of stuff as I do…and FUN is what a game should be about.
Eve isn’t an action MMO, it isn’t called “Spreadsheet in Space” for no reason, bring back my happy AFK multi drone-boat missioning so I can melt the rats with critical mass rather than seeing them drones gets insta melted. This is easily solved by adding a chance modifier to the rats whether they should have sleeper AI, based on system security status if CCP is afraid that AFK drone boat ratting is going to be out of control, rather than being lazy and nerf everything completely to solve one issue.
and I can keep going, and I know some people are going to say it’s quite wild, or outright saying it’s not going to work, it’s going to destroy the economy, destroy the game…etc. But I’ll say, that’s what’s exactly stops innovation, the risk-averse operator of the game thinks they know the answers to everything that’s gonna happen already when they make any changes and refuse to change at all, nor even try.
To the above personal wishlist, many might rise question as to how to address “balance” on each in detail, that’s not my job, all I can say is, it definitely can be done, but does the CCP dare try?
Null and low sec alliances would swarm upon high sec and the majority of high sec players would roll over onto their bellies and the entire game would become low and null…
There are people who are fiercely opposed to any changes and prefer to stay within the isolated box regardless on how degraded such said box is. I’m merely providing personal opinions rather than pretend to be the Almighty “Know-It-All”.
It’s only been a decade, this box Eve is in can still run for quite some time in its current state just relevant to the topic though, staying like this surely won’t bring another “Golden Age”. One thing is clear - Changes are needed and will be impeded by players that refuse to see that.
There will be no Golden Age. EVE’s glory days of uber-massive battles and corporate espionage to the tune of trillions of ISK are long behind it. What you have left are die hard players like me that don’t want the game to be changed from what has worked for 20 years, and new players that want EVE to be changed into something it isn’t and never was…
On this we can agree. But there’s no need for a consensus. EVE is a PVP game. PVP has been enabled in every system in the entire game since the nanosecond the servers were first turned on 20 years ago…
Then we’re on the partly on the same page then, my very limited proposal removes nothing from the game except PI which is not what Eve had and only added and iterated on mostly in the past decade.
Other things such as Gun-Mining, AFK drone boat combat are what worked way before that which got removed.
And few other things really just expand the game further, worthy to be called “Expansion” rather than “Fiddling with Numbers Balancing Passes”. More dynamics, more play style, do it right and it’ll be no easy mode, still satisfy players old and new.
Wishful thinking anyway because CCP never listens, not decades ago, not likely now.
This. EVE needs to be harder, not easier. I shouldn’t be able to waltz into any game content that I want and know exactly what I’ll be facing and exactly how to kill it in the absolute shortest time possible…
I’m sure you’ll tell me that fire would rain from the sky, the seas would boil and the entire economy would collapse. What I think would actually happen is there’d be a minor fart on the market and nothing would change. Much bigger changes have been made in the past and had very little lasting impact on the market.
But go ahead, tell me what you think would happen.
Firstly, why? Why would there be significantly more than there are now? Are there thousands of people who want to mine in highsec and only don’t because gankers exist?
Secondly, I would think that if thousands more players started flying orcas and hulks, that would be absolutely amazing for CCPs omega sub numbers.
This is such a limited view based on an assumption of an increase in supply that is seemingly unaffected by the drop in price.
What is the Hope Diamond worth? What if there were 100 million Hope Diamonds on Earth? That diamond is now all but worthless. Ships, items, and resources in EVE work the exact same way. Sure, you’ll be mining in perfect safety, but so will thousands of other players, and the resultant overflow of minerals and resources would reduce the price of said commodities to almost nothing. Yeah, you’re safe now, but you’re still in the same boat you were in before making very little ISK for your efforts.
Meanwhile, mission runners would be flying around in 10 billion ISK Marauders, not needing to ever replace the ship or modules unless you somehow royally messed up and lost one in a mission…
Right, but again you’re just making an assumption that there are tens of thousands of players waiting to mine and only held back by a fear of being ganked. You’re then assuming they would all mine regardless of the price of the materials they mine and that nothing else in the economy would balance out.
The troll likes to maintain two contradictory arguments:
ganking is overpowered griefing, which harms other players
ganking is irrelevant, with no meaningful impact
If you argue against either viewpoint, the troll will argue the opposite. Likewise, if you argue ganking is good for the game, they will insist ganking should be removed. However, if you observe that they said ganking should be removed, they will call you a troll and pretend you took their words out of context. This troll hides their posting history, to make it difficult for others to see what they are doing.
Their goal is to waste your time, and bait you into saying something which they can report as a “personal attack”. They have been doing this for over a decade.
Best thing to do is block them and stop responding.
It is hard to find decent replies in this rich, frothy soup of meter-deep hot garbage. I thought that this would be a decent thread full of decent resplovonses that would maybe be looked at by decent devs.
Oh my word was I wrong.
Another suggestion that I have is to institute the ub language into the game as an option.
Drones (additional Dimension to some of the things listed above)
I have some concrete ideas but they are bad ones (as in: details would derail the convo). I wanted to keep it high level and say the more novel interesting PvP options the more reason people will log in to test them out (and, as a side effect, people doing PvE activities can too).
I was surprised that the takeaway from my post was that I was anti-ganking.
My position is that ganking in theory is a good thing. If it requires effort and risk, I am all for it. The current ganking dynamic is bland, and allows a group of players flying ships whose loss causes no particular inconvenience to the ganker, to inflict significant loss on an opponent.
My point was that there should be a play style that counters that. Not avoids it as you suggest players do. There should be a sense that a group setting up a gate camp will inevitably become a target for a player group who stand to make a substantial (perhaps related to recent ship losses in the system/region where criminality was involved?) reward for banding together and fighting the gankers.
I’ve said this before, and it always surprises me how many Gankers seem opposed to a space police, cops and robbers style of play. It is surely a much more exciting way to play the game, generates meta gameplay styles, player generated content, and even a role play element. Why on earth would gankers - who famously only have the game’s best interests at heart and simply gank to keep it alive - not relish more interaction, more PVP, and more challenge to everyone, while still retaining the ability to gank who they want, when they want?
It particularly surprises me that anyone opposes this given that CONCORD exists already, a completely artificial NPC police force that adds nothing to the game. Just turn that into a faction that players can join, and give them performance related pay that makes it equally attractive to both gank and anti-gank.
