Then don’t use ‘factor’ and try to sell it as ‘the whole game’…
And?
You totally MISS the meaning of the phrase here…
The bottom line here is MY opinion and not PVP…
LOL
The only fact here is you said something you are now backpedalling on.
If you were capable of conversation it would be worth talking to you, but you arent.
At least youve never shown any willingness to.
Anyway, you stated the bottom line was pvp.
/Character
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I do?
Well you simply not beeing able to understand what i say correctly is the way bigger problem here…instead you just understand what YOU want like your one-dimensional kind always does…
It’s sad but obviously you can’t do it any better…
Yet that’s exactly what you wrote : the pvp factor is the most important in Eve. Which makes it a PVP game, even if there is a PVE factor too.
Therefore this quote is plainly absurd :
Because if it’s a multi approach game with a pvp factor bottom line, then it’s a “PVP game” by definition.
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In what way?
Given you never explain yourself using legible english its not suprising that no one understands your so-called explainations.
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Nobody did. You are the one adding “pure pvp” terms out of nowhere.
Eve is not a “pure PVP” game. It’s a game designed around PVP, with PVE being a way to make PVP happen. So it is a PVP game, even if there is PVE in it. The balance is for PVP, not PVE : just look at all the ships that are useless in PVE (recon, inties, EWAR, …)
The problem is that those PvE games you so desperately want to play already exist and already have the customers that want that kind of game. Making EVE into WoW in space would just kill off its existing customer base for no return.
PS: you are pathetic farmer trash and you need to GTFO.
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You’re an idiot, that’s the bottom line.
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Yea, but when I under cut them for .01 isk, they ain’t losing their stuff…
Where in any definition of PvP or “Competition” does it say that the other person has to lose their stuff?
Their losing their position on the market and thus unable to have their Sell Orders fulfilled until the lower orders are completed. They lose their place, their lose time (if you count that) and the potential to make returns on their orders.
You are still competing with other players, in this case, competing to see who’s goods will sell.
If you don’t think that’s PvP, you need a greater degree of help than is possible to give over the internet.
You literally lose minerals from real pvp. Markets ain’t pvp. It’s competition, but it’s not pvp. I know what pvp stands for and it’s a term that came about from older mmos when players engaged in combat against one another, not crafting and markets. They never used pvp to mean market competition or industry. Plus, that kind of blanket covering definition of ‘pvp’ doesn’t excuse what has gone on.
Nicolai, I’m not the one who takes a literal stance on what pvp means. Most people, outside eve, when they see the word pvp, they think of combat. Not player run markets. Doesn’t matter if you compete against other players, otherwise, WoW’s auction house is pvp but you never see anyone reference it like that. PvP for all intents and purposes by mundane eyes, means player versus player in combat.
“Go in WoW, or the X series.”
Then on another day they’re talking about retaining new players because older players are quitting and not coming back. Also, WoW is dying because Blizzard literally keeps changing the functions of their classes non stop. Basically to the tune to people who complain about things being “unfair”. Even with their classic release, it’s not like real vanilla wow with their weird instancing and decisions to change abilities from their original form. That’s what’s killing WoW. No one pays developers to ruin their own fun. Just a matter of time before they realize that’s what they have been doing. Eve is different in this regard because you can just pilot the new meta, where as WOW, you only got one ship, for a lack of better words. And despite how one can simply fly the new meta, doesn’t mean it’s a good excuse to change things for the sake of change. The rules of chess don’t change and that’s what people would love to see when it comes to their mmos of choice.
Scoots, you’re like a religious extremist when it comes to definitions. That’s why you guys can’t get why people say eve is not pvp a game.
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Most people are wrong then. And most games don’t have EVE’s level of detail in trade and industry. In those games maybe it’s appropriate to only consider combat PvE because combat is all there really is and none of the other aspects are significant enough to talk about. But in EVE, where combat is only part of the game experience, a broader definition is required.
Scoots, you’re like a religious extremist when it comes to definitions. That’s why you guys can’t get why people say eve is not pvp a game.
Counter-argument: farmers like you desperately want to group industry and market PvP into PvE so you can claim that EVE is not a PvP game and lobby for more risk-free mindless PvE farming. Your hope is that even though industry and market focused players have nothing in common with you and your goals, and in fact want the exact opposite from EVE*, you can inflate the apparent number of players you represent and convince uninformed observers to listen to you. In reality you are incompetent farmer trash that has to resort to forum lobbying because you suck at EVE and can’t survive in a PvP game.
*Remember, for a smart industry or market player combat PvP is an opportunity to exploit and the more destruction the better. For example, smart miners and manufacturers love suicide ganking and want it to happen as much as possible, as every suicide gank of their rivals means more ISK in their wallets. The only people who benefit from decreasing PvP conflict are farmer trash combat PvE players.
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Pvp can be used to describe any competition between players.
It’s not just killing eachother. Most sports are pvp games. An arm wrestle is pvp, as long as it’s against another person.
In eve, the market and mining is in competition with other players. Anoms and exploration are in competition with other players.
It’s all pvp.
In that case EVE is hardly a unique game anymore then, is it? Since competition between and among players is central to most games, then almost every game is a PvP game and EVE is just a PvP game that is unusually awkward, boring and slow.
‘Spreadsheets in Space, the Office Software Wars for Accountants’.
Honestly, having to fall back on “everything is PvP” to justify “EVE is a PvP-centric game” just shows how bad and how minimal PvP really is in EVE, even for the PvP cheerleaders.
Some people may say “EVE is mostly PvE, therefore let’s develop more and better PvE”. Other people like myself say “EVE is a PvP-inspired game, maybe it’s time to make the PvP interesting enough and accessible enough that it’s more than a minority activity”.
Either way, it’s simply a call to make EVE better. Better PvE would lead to more PvP targets, better PvP would lead to more and better player engagement. The only thing to avoid is “not making EVE better”.
People really should focus on ways to make the game better, rather than having slapfights with people they disagree with. It’s not like CCP is actually listening anyway.
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If the resource you are competing for is not impacted by the other’s activity, then no you are not in competition.
Typically players are not in competition for acquirement of abyssal items(the competition is on the market). Nor are they in competition for the acquisition of LP/isk from missions. They are however in competition for the acquisition of ore/ice, for the anomalies, for the signatures. A lot of “pve activities” are actually mixed with PVP - just the main restriction to your income comes in the form of NPC, so they are mainly PVE, but PVP is still there.
Instead of calling it PvP, you can call it competitive PvE.
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Many games in a broad sense are pvp yep. Competition is engaging long term. We know this. People may want to see the chess masters play against the computer once or twice, but against other players is the main event.
Eve still set’s itself apart by lowering barriers and providing options for pvp. If you can’t beat your opponent in a straight fight you can bring superior numbers and economic power to beat them strategically. Or you can use espionage. Or political influence etc.
Other games have elements of this. But nothing like eve as the media reports. That’s what makes eve special. Player agency. Maybe you can’t mine as fast as him, but you can steal is ore can or gank him/wardec him until he leaves your turf.
And that’s what ccp have been nerfing in eve. Player agency.
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