What Would Make It Special

This is one of the best games available, having both three-dimensional gameplay and a gathering, crafting, and trading economy. I would like to discuss its limiting factor, the SP system. Every character having access to all options would make it the most diverse and deep sandbox, tying with ARK.


Not entirely sure what you mean by this. The skills system is a pain, but on the positive side…once you have those skills you have the advantage over those who don’t.

Of course, the game contains two types of skills. Pretend skills that you can buy, or gain in your sleep, and real skills that involve knowing how to use stuff properly. Its precisely that crazy mix that makes the game unpredictable and exciting. And in my view does not need fixing.


This is true stuff.

You obviously do. It’s a huge gap to both new and experienced players experiencing various aspects of the game, largely having characters mostly on combat.

It’s not clear how.

I’m of the view that we don’t want CCP showing people how to do up their shoe laces. The fact that the game is horrendously complex, has a steep learning curve, and has a skills queue that lasts forever, is precisely what separates the survivors from those that quit. The game is entirely about that survivor mentality. In my view there’s a certain something that newcomers to Eve already need to have…and without which no amount of NPE or ‘fixes’ will make survivability better.

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There’s a difference between not spoonfeeding, which is an irrelevant metric to how much fun players are usually having, and paywalling 26 years or $25k of pretend skills.

The inability to use everything perfectly all the time is what leads players to be creative, resourceful, scrappy, and prevents a stale game where there is “The Meta” which has been minmaxed to death. It introduces meaningful, personal choices that directly expresses a player’s agency in how they have flown, are currently flying, and plan to fly.

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A meta still exists – faction ships, T2, T3. Not being able to fly those undermines the largest potential population – new characters – and foregoes valid gameplay for figuratives. Creative, resourceful, and scrappy gameplay still exists as the numbers game.

So, you’re not really proving a point, especially next to all the negatives. EVE has very few approachable targets in many systems; almost no accessibility to non-combat roles; and little in gathering, crafting, and trading, which summarizes some of the most important roleplaying options.

…which will drive out most players. You’re eliminating many dimensions of gameplay to reduce it to a “numbers game”. That this portion of the meta survives, and your unwillingness to acknowledge what is being sacrificed, damages your credibility, especially when you say:

I am if you put in the effort to earnestly listen.

The numbers game already exists. You’re not realizing that removing SP only allows more options. That’s where the entertainment is. A skillful player would want lots of opposition opportunities, e.g., because that’s where the gameplay is, and you actually enjoy EVE.

“This portion of the meta” only “survives” because it’s a direct implementation by the development studio. At odds with the game’s success, it’s extremely undermined by the science the same has already mentioned. See intrinsic motivation.

“It’s a pretty small achievement getting the 1.5B or so for a carrier. If nothing else, that’s about a PLEX – and $20 is like an outing at a bar. That being no option is literally worthless for gameplay. That helps nothing for mining and the ore prices, nor the potential purchase, nor the industry production, nor the content that comes from the capital. If newbies aren’t in capitals, from what can come the B-R style of gameplay?”
-Dror, on the archived forums.

Also by Dror:


EvE could work without skillpoints, but there are some other issues that would crop up that would need to be addressed. Off the cuff, market trading alts, pi farms, industry and research farms, and potentially mining/ratting farms would all have important barriers to entry removed.

Those barriers contribute a large chunk to the profitability of those activities.

Then there’s bots. Replacing botting accounts requires at least an initial investment through sp. Removing that is probably a bad move.

I agree.

I’m not “realizing it” because it’s an opinion, one I disagree with. Ive begun to touch on the reasonings why I disagree with your opinion, but it appears to not interest you. If you continue to assert your opinions as facts this discussion isn’t going to go very far and will just mirror the echo-chamber of other places that have hive-mind problems.

The numbers game is more of a problem because of SP, veterans having more potency per because of more money paid.

Also, what I’m claiming is factual.

I am curious as to how you view skill injectors then? Money for SP sounds exactly what this framing claims is a problem, yet skill injectors provide exactly this service and is demonstrably more effective for the disadvantaged lower SP characters.

Injectors are directly bought from CCP with real money only empty.

So you’re looking for a free solution then, I see.

You can buy plex to buy sp?

You are contrasting things that are irrelevant; but technically, removing SP still has players required to subscribe.


I always thought it was your subscription paid for your SP gain so the SP then has a value you invest into the game and reward by the SP originally before injectors came along, and when they did come along, they got a return on that investment they put in. It also allowed CCP to make the total SP pool within the game smaller by adding a “tax” if you had too many skill points. So getting rid of skill points means that the past 19 years of investments made were pointless? or am I just talking rubbish? It seems to be that catching new fish is more important than retaining loyal ones.