Deflating the Linux PC user’s ego. Also, I like how just now you pretended to know everything about me and completely missed the mark on every point. Good job! I waste my life with Netflix, thankyouverymuch!
edit: also, this thread is totally about ego. “Even though I use an OS that is completely irrelevant to PC gaming, I demand a special version of a PC game, just for me!” And even your own responses: “Other people who aren’t me are using a completely different version of approximately the same thing I use, therefore I demand my completely irrelevant usage of that thing to be treated with the same importance as actually relevant uses of it!” Yeah, some egos need deflating in this ego thread. Sure, use your thing, I don’t judge peoples’ hobbies. But you wouldn’t expect CCP to invest heavily in catering to philatelists or bird watchers, so check the ego.
Well, depends on everyone’s own perspective. I love how mkint wants to “deflate the Linux PC user’s ego”. He is really just saying he has none of its own and is jealous. He knows we can use both Windows and Linux, and he only has Windows. It never seems to get old.
That’s not wrong, but they are not irrelevant. They are a market! A dying market, just like the windows market, but a market. Streaming will take over eventually.
Hey, I was only reflecting the attitude I found questionable!
I don’t give a damn about this on a personal level. The desktop wars are long over. Operating systems are shifting towards irrelevance. An outdated concept.
Nice try. I use Linux professionally in numerous server deployments and I have used it as a desktop environment for programming. Of course, every phone I owned for the past 10+ years has ran Android, too.
But despite all the efforts by Canonical to push Linux on the desktop (and Red Hat before them), it is still completely niche. Linux desktop market share is less than 2%. Wishful thinking won’t change that. And when it comes to games, despite Valve’s enormous efforts to push the platform, Linux is about as useful as Armor Reps on a Drake.
Right back at you. First do you belittle Linux and now suddenly you want to convince with a confession of “I use Linux professionally”. You’re about as convincing as a fat girl is who is saying she’s a super model.
You’re not using Linux professionally. You are using it unwillingly at best.
I stand by all I wrote, including the first reply. And I’m nor trying to convince anyone of anything, mate. You are welcome to think anything you’d like. And I’m sure there are some fat girls out there who went on to become supermodels. Why are you trying to shame fat girls?
Fact is, just like I wrote, yes Linux is great for servers and decent (mediocre really because Android’s UI is crap that gets worse every year) for smartphones but as far as being a gaming platform worth of attention, only those three nerds in their basement really care about it.
I could ask you why you’re trying to shame three nerds in their basement, but I can guess the answer. You’re afraid of being one and not being as good as they are.
Anyhow, let’s talk about Linux and why it’s great. Do you know why? It’s because it allows the industry to save serious money with it.
The moment Linux allowed the small devices market to get rid of costly license fees and shrink devices further thanks to Linux, that’s when the majority of makers switched to it. This change didn’t happen gradually, but it went fast and made it near impossible for anyone not using Linux to compete with cheaper devices that now ran on Linux.
It’s little different with the server market. The hardware is more expensive there when compared to the cost of an OS. The OS cost could have been ignored, but because Linux has a serious influence on the performance does the value of entire server farms go up. The change to Linux didn’t happen fast, because it already had good OSes for servers. And yet Linux drove most of them out.
If you look at the list of top 500 super computers won’t you only find 1 or 2 in all of the 500 installations listed, which don’t use Linux (you may see OS names you’ve never seen before, but these are 99.8% all based on Linux). The two fastest super computers now are both Chinese, and they use Linux. It shows the dominance Linux has achieved without having a company behind it like Microsoft, who only achieved their dominance through deals where their OS ends up pre-installed on hardware as it’s the case for the PC market.
Linux doesn’t dominate markets, because of deals made between a software giant and hardware manufacturers. It won’t conquer the desktop market over night either, because Microsoft will do everything it can to keep their dominance. Nobody is also out to fight Microsoft nor are your three nerds doing that.
But the moment games can run as fast on Linux as they can run on Windows will more and more game makers start releasing a Linux version and that’s when you’ll see the market changing.
Seeing how game consoles are now based on PC hardware is it not a question of if but of when it will happen. And it’s not going to be you who will be sitting in the driver’s seat, but it will be your three basement nerds, who made it possible.
Even Microsoft itself is changing. They now allow Linux to run inside Windows with WSL, which allows a developer to develop software under Windows and for Windows and Linux simultaneously. There is no more need to switch PCs or dual-boot in order to write software for both platforms. But it also means Microsoft has people working for them, who work on Linux and on integrating it into Windows.
Bill Gates himself was a nerd who started in a garage. Where do you see yourself there? I see you as a tool who does what he’s being told to do, but not because he wants to do them. You don’t enjoy what you do, and hence you have your tale of the three nerds. Nor are you a professional, because you crap where you eat. As a professional would you know better not to do it. So do yourself a favor. When you don’t love what you do then change what you do and stop hating others for being better at it.
To answer the original question, EvE supporting only DirectX is the likely culprit for a lack of Linux support. While I don’t claim to understand the back-end of the graphics engine for EvE, considering it was a game originally released for Windows with no OpenGL support, without doing an extensive rehaul of the game engine any official Linux port is likely going to be a glorified Wine hack, like the OSX port. Considering how broad in scope and limited in marketshare EvE’s linux users are, the existing unofficial launcher seems like an appropriate stopgap. Hell, the fact alone that the game still supports DirectX 9 tells me that the developers are at least trying their best to accomodate Linux gamers, as well as people running the game on older hardware.
I would give the developers a harder time if EvE was originally released with OpenGL support, but FFS this game is fifteen years old.
In the meantime I’ll continue the haphazard route of avoiding my botnet Windows partition despite EvE crashing on Linux… after re-enabling… sound… sigh.
If you’re referring to the end of Windows 7 then you’re probably wrong. People update their Windows reluctantly, true, but they will keep updating it, because all they want is to have less work with an OS, any OS, than to have more work with it.
It’s things such as Microsoft embracing Linux with WSL that are making it hard to say how it will happen. It makes it easier for developers to develop for both OSes, but at the same time would I no longer be surprised to see Microsoft dropping their NT kernel for a Linux kernel when they have now people working on integrating Linux into Windows.
10-15 years ago would almost nobody have thought to see this happening.
I’m already using WSL to run PHP scripts, which I had written for Linux. I’m loving it:
I started playing a few weeks I think after they released the “Linux client”. It wasn’t actually a native client. Similar to the “OSX client” it was a slightly modified windows client wrapped with cedega for Linux and cider for OSX, both wine forks from back when wine was not GPL. And they where pretty horrible.
Like you mentioned the graphics where just bad since back then there was a normal and premium mode, where the premium mode was basically the updated graphics from the Trinity expansion, which cider and cedega just could not handle.
I used it for like two weeks and then I simply used wine and the official windows client since it was capable of running the new graphics and was just in general more stable and better performing.
After only a year they gave up on the “Linux client” because even Linux user where not using it because they where in general pretty tech savvy people and probably all ran it with wine. They kept the OSX client for years in this horrible state and I wrote multiple times that this is an absolute waste and they should just support wine as an independent platform. They kinda did that with the new launcher.
That being said, I think the reason why we don’t have “official” support is simply because the amount of players using Linux is just abysmal. And I don’t think fooling ourselves into thinking otherwise is not going to help any discussion about it.
I’m extremely thankful to CCP we have this “unsupported” launcher now, and let’s be honest what difference would it make if they say it is “officially” supported? As I said, the Linux players are mostly pretty tech savvy and so far in the last 11 years I had maybe one or two weeks where I could not play EVE or had a problem which made it unplayable for me, since almost always someone found a solution within hours if something broke. That is pretty amazing! So things are pretty good as they are.
If they would state they support it officially it would send the signal that people can now complain about stuff not working. Because that is what people do if they think someone else is in charge to solve their problems . And because the player base is so small there would be more costs for the actual support than there is revenue generated and they would immediately shut it down again. So I think the “Linux client” can currently only exist this way, everything else is just unrealistic.
As for a real native client, that is just a pipe dream. And I dnon’t think I have to even mention why.
I was referring to the client we had in 2009 or earlier. I’m not sure anymore how long ago it was. I didn’t get a good look at it then. People said it was a native client and I believed them.
I’m not, because it’s CCP’s fault that we needed it in the first place. It’s one thing to withdraw support for Linux. It’s another to make a launcher so flashy that a game can no longer run on Linux, when the point of most launchers is to help start a game and to solve problems. The launcher was a mess created by CCP, who not only no longer supported Linux, but in fact had denied us the game under Linux now.
Only that’s why a CCP dev made a launcher for Linux. You guys keep praising CCP for this nonsense, but you ignore the big picture. No offense, but I have no gratitude for mess ups. And now the Linux launcher needs fixing because of the outdated libraries it needs and so the mess only continues. So I’m happy and thankful for WINE to allow for us to put it behind us, and that’s all I’ll ever be thankful for.
Native in the sense that it was bundled.
CCP couldn’t release a native client even if they wanted, without first rewriting CARBON to use OpenGL / Vulkan instead of DirectX.
That is the timeframe I was talking about. It was a modified windows client bundled with a wine fork named cedega. Believe me I was there and I’m a Linux only players for a long long time (my last windows was win98) and I know wtf I’m looking at.
I’m not sure where you getting all of this. First, they withdrew Linux support a long long time ago (2009). EVE only ever had Linux support with the crap client I mentioned for ~1 year. That was long long before any launcher even appeared on the horizon.
And yes the old launcher was a mess, but it was a mess for everyone not just for people using wine. When they released the current launcher it had it’s problems at the start but it worked pretty fine in wine too. But since it was written in QT and they finally retired the old OSX (which was still cider based) client with it because it had the capability to launch the client with wine, one dev invested some of his free time to polish it a bit for Linux and made a release.
I’m using the Linux launcher without any issues since they released it. As far as I know every library it needs comes bundled with it, so there should not be an issue with system libraries at all. Maybe you think it is an issue that they use old versions, but I guess that same problem would be true for the Windows release as well, since it is the very same thing.
The one thing that would be nice and where they could get a serious improvement for little effort is if they would package it as a flatpack or snap so it is bundled with a tested runtime and gets consistent results across distributions.
Apart from that, I’m not really sure where there real problem is here. It seems you are really bitter or you try to be bitter about CCP dropping support for Linux. But given this is now almost 10 years ago that seems a bit strange to me.
Not really. But you also have to accept the reality which is that we are such a minority here that investing any effort into it will yield CCP no profit. So in regard to that I’m thankful they create the launcher anyway, so we get the very same thing OSX gets, just without the support. Which if they added that would make this a substantial money drain and the whole thing could no longer be justified and would be abandoned completely.
Also, I like how just now you pretended to know everything about me and completely missed the mark on every point. Good job! I waste my life with Netflix, thankyouverymuch!
. And because the player base is so small there would be more costs for the actual support than there is revenue generated and they would immediately shut it down again. So I think the “Linux client” can currently only exist this way, everything else is just unrealistic.