I do want to take a moment to point at this statement… trillions have not been uprooted, converted, or obliterated. Billions yes, but not trillions. Trillions would be a significant proportion of any of the given empires populations.
Specifics and minor nitpicking aside, continue.
Oh I could certainly spin harder.
The distribution of the systems does seem to be somewhat tailored to the Clades though, the Krai Veles has a large proportion of Gallente systems. The Gallente are the most likely to accept the diplomatic advances of Clade Veles. It could certainly be argued that Svarog received the systems where they were most likely to find heavy opposition. And Perun mainly got a bunch of Caldari because most of the systems taken were Caldari.
I didn’t say they were fleeing, did I? I said it was to “finance” their fight against the Drifters. Resources are what they came for. Proving is also not specific to trial by combat. And honestly? I don’t think they see the situation as worse. Most efforts are devoted to raiding the Caldari State 24/7 with little care for defense, and those forces that they have designated to defend are merely Raznaborg. They’re not taking this seriously at all. Partly because they asked sobornost Kybernauts to kill these enemies, and we do.
I fought since Raravoss. I commanded fleets and flew for periods of 24 consecutive hours at times.
And I decided waaay back at Raravoss that I wanted to see the full capabilities of the Collective and learn more about them no matter what. For this, I have suppressed my concern for these things. The actions of Clade Svarog are unconscionable, but I do not intend to change my course. It does not bother me that I am hated.
Fair enough.
Then, yes. Since then I’ve grown as a person. I’ve become one of if not the most outspoken proponent of peace among the Empires since then. I’m also one of the greatest sympathizers with the motives and situation of the Collective. I haven’t demanded that the Triglavians vacate their newly acquired systems.
Up until now, I was perhaps the best possible person to help establish diplomatic relationships. I have no bias towards any of the Empires or CONCORD. But, quite frankly, I am so fecking done with defending myself against those I’m trying to help. Have fun trying to negotiate any lasting peace with the loyalists.
Way to ignore all my points in order to protect your own ego.
He said while wearing the colors of the madmen that continue to send wave after wave of naval forces into Pochven to die. While so proudly having fought against the Collective’s only shot at survival throughout the war.
You can claim to be a proponent for peace, that I can accept and agree on, but please don’t pretend that you sympathize with the Collective. You did not even seem to know what their motives were.
In any case, this thread has been derailed enough. This is supposed to be an informative thread regarding Krai Veles, if you wish to discuss things there are more direct channels to use.
Wirashoda
The long awaited Wirashoda update is here at last. This update covers the state of the system at large, the level of cooperation shown by the population, Stribog planetary operations, and the condition of the local resistances.
State of the System
As the seat of Stribog’s power, Wirashoda is home to much industrial and military activity. Vigil is maintained for enemy fleets and it is not uncommon for encroaching EDENCOM to be eliminated shortly after arrival. As we are also the sole provider of non-Collective infrastructure and hold some measure of control over access to the planets, Stribog has been able to seriously stymie EDENCOM attempts to supply and coordinate planetary resistances. This has also put us in close cooperation with the provisional government, which I can tell you a bit about. In order to generate as little friction with the populace as possible, it maintains the familiar corporate trappings with a Triglavian spin, and seems to slowly become more Triglavian as time goes on. In addition, Clade Veles seems to be increasing efforts to normalize their presence. In tandem with the work of Stribog Clade, open discontent in Wirashoda is at an all-time low, and the majority of the citizens have finally fallen into line. Aside from that, Triglavian sympathizing baseliners have been trickling into the system, spooked by the empowerment of Concord’s SARO to seek them out across empire space. Moving on…
Planetary Operations
Stribog has made a point of being extensively involved in planetary affairs in Wirashoda. As involved as we can be anyway. As in other systems discussion with the transitional governing body is open to us, and there is a tendency for more information to be exchanged in these conversations as we have our own data from the surface to talk about. A notable number of Stribog Clade Kybernauts operate planetary facilities which provide employment for locals and new residents alike, helping to alleviate issues caused by other employment sources leaving the system. As an extension to this, several PMCs(Private Military Contractors) have been employed by Stribog Clade to police these facilities and carry out anti-resistance activities in cooperation with Clade Veles task forces. Most notable are Eagles of Storm Wind, led by the respectable 1st Commander Ukio Raishi; Swords of Geros, under the stern leadership of Director John Hopper; and Sobornost Security Force, commanded by the carefree Chief of Security Jaki Leelin.
The Resistance
As is common for Caldari systems, Wirashoda hosts a couple resistance movements where planetary conditions allow. As the other planets are either too inhospitable to such efforts or uncolonized, Wirashoda IV and IX are the only planets where Caldari military personnel have been able to escape the grasp of Clade Veles and work in opposition. Originally, minor efforts existed on Wirashoda II and V, but these were used as trial runs for the aforementioned PMCs and to my knowledge have been subdued by Clade Veles with their assistance. Given their success with the small resistance movements, the Eagles, Swords, and SSF were deployed to Wirashoda IV and IX to help suppress the major holdouts. The SSF and Eagles operate on both planets simultaneously, while the smaller Swords of Geros have chosen to concentrate their forces on the 9th planet. In the last few weeks long anticipated plans to tighten the net around resistance forces came to fruition. On Wirashoda IX many of the remaining State Peacekeepers and corporate military personnel were cornered and forced to fight the combined might of Clade Veles’ resident anti-resistance units, Swords of Geros, Eagles of Storm Wind, and Sobornost Security Force. Reports of the ensuing battle indicate a catastrophic defeat for the resistance, though some were able to break out of the trap and evaded capture. SoG have taken it upon themselves to locate and detain as many of these escapees as possible and have already caught a few groups. At around the same time on Wirashoda IV, the Eagles and SSF successfully conducted an ambush on a resistance supply convoy, overwhelming the defenders and confiscating whatever survived the battle. All captured personnel are slated to be turned in to Clade Veles authorities in the near future.
I do have to say, I find Atruin’s assertion that the Triglavians have committed worse atrocities then the four empires combined as charmingly naive. At best you could say that the Collective has simply produced a comparable atrocity to one of the big four in a very short amount of time, and even then I have my doubts as to the validity of that for multiple reasons. Not the least of which is the simple fact that, for example, the worst atrocities of the Gallente-Caldari war were never published by either side and are almost entirely remembered by the old vets of those battles.
The large majority of which are, for obvious reasons, rather dead at the moment. Even then what i’v been able to compile has mostly consisted of what I was able to gather from others at the time, an ongoing research project that I hope to harvest information on between raids alongside the Kybernauts. Triglavian’s do data harvesting better then almost anyone else, and don’t have much regard for the Empires security measures.
Either way, I look forward to further updates on Clade Veles and it’s progress. i cannot, at the moment, be everywhere at once.
Think of all the life that was and would have existed in a system. Not just human life. Now consider all the ecological potential that relies on a system’s star, the natural progression of evolution. Take the average remaining lifespan of the target stars before being targeted for stellar harvesting. Now multiply that by twenty-seven systems.
At best, you’re taking a conveniently shortsighted view of the situation. I find it more likely, however, that you’re deliberately glossing these facts over for the sake of propaganda.
I think you vastly underestimate the level of damage caused by hundreds of years of war or the immense loss of life caused by it, deliberate targeting of innocent life included. The view isn’t shortsighted, it’s incredibly long and looking both forward and backward in a way that few people besides a reborn Intaki can. If you want people to reconsider their views on the Triglavians you’re going to have to do better then appeal to the damage to twenty seven systems ecology and billions of lost lives, as the bodycount racked up by the empires is both unnatural in a way that you can only appreciate through the horror of a Holy Star and vast in scale that compares if not exceeds.
I’m not saying that you cannot do it and i’d be open to debate, but you’re going to have to do better philosophically rather then appealing to immediate physical consequence.
my soul doesn’t have a single mechanism …
Buddy I ain’t no fan of the Empires’ track record either, but this is a difference between centuries and millenia. Thousands of years of evolutionary progress and life. Maybe millions, I dunno exactly what the life expectancy of those stars was before the transmuters.
Furthermore, they did it too is a child’s excuse.
The concept of saying ‘They did it too’ as being inherently childish is essentially pure trite. Humans function on risk evaluation, if two forces have equal risk to one another then you need to slow down and take in the complexity of the situation. This is beyond the fact that aside from the visual horror of a sun being harvested for energy it completely ignores that the Empires have laid countless organisms to waste and mutilated the human body in some of the most perverse ways imaginable.
Essentially what you’re asking me to do is bet on the devil I know over the devil I don’t. Common wisdom, which is to say nonsense, would say I should keep to what I know and can understand. But here’s the deal: The Empires are a nightmarish dystopian hellscape and the Triglavians only might be that, for all we know they may have the tools to protect the system from a star collapse, or stop it’s destruction entirely. Whatever is in Buyan might negate the need to worry about it altogether.
So spare me the platitudes and give me an actual reason for why I should view Bioadaption as more horrific versus organizations that will cut up sections of your brain and shove implants in that cause you to relive your past crimes until you kill yourself as a way of making ‘examples’ from criminals.
It’s all shite, mate. Like I said in the other thread.
If you had initiated this dialogue with ‘It’s all ■■■■’ I would of disagreed, but we’d be having a very different conversation.
The premise was that what the Collective did exceeds any of the Four Empires atrocities. You don’t get to backpeddle now and say it’s all garbage like you’ve been on the fence all along. You made an assertion, that assertion is being challenged, and the best defense you’ve given me so far seems to just boil down to the visual horror of a dying sun should be enough to disturb me without any critical thought. But guess what? when you see a torture device that’s designed to viscerally pull someone inside out in the slowest manner possible, and you promptly realize it’s not the only one and there may be dozens, hundreds, thousands like it that have been used for who knows how long? it’s not as compelling of an argument as you think it is.
Actually. ■■■■■■■. Defend. Your point.
Thank you.
Milllenia of evolution, gone. For entire systems! It is not “just” the “visual horror of a dying sun”, it’s the long-term effects of that sun’s death! I’m asking you to actually think about what that loss of light does to an ecosystem.
And I have been saying the Empires are garbage for as long as I’ve been on this forum!
My point here has always been that the Collective is pulling the same crap as the Empires, only on a whole different level because of their inarguably superior technology on that front, and the full long-term effects of that technology! The premise is that forced bioadaptation is not benevolent, as has been argued previously in this thread!
Better, though a point i’v partially already addressed. At the same time I might as well elaborate further while im here: warzones do not exist in isolation, nor does mass mineral harvesting of resources. Preventing ecological destruction is a noble goal, but it is not a unique crime to the Triglavian Empire. The reason why I say you’re basically boiling it down to visual horror is because it ignores widescale damage that exists on countless worlds from Empire actions, even in the most seemingly minor ways. Partially due to malice, but also simply due to size, they are too big to not do that.
Personally I don’t buy that Bioadaption is purely benevolent. Individual Triglavians may internalize it as such depending on how much empathy they do, or do not, have. But by and large it’s a question of practicality, worlds are not useful if everyone and everything on them is dead. I am, however, inclined to believe that especially in the case of Clade Veles it’s not just a question of utility. If they wanted to maximize our worth to them they would of simply enslaved us en mass and been done with it, probably wouldn’t of even bothered to send us a message about what they are doing to begin with.
It’s hard to tell what exactly the Triglavians are doing however, if they are indeed ‘pulling the same crap’ or not because we have yet to be fully informed of what they do and do not want. That said, their level of technology is not greater then our own. It’s only developed horizontally from our own, they lack Gallente Drones for example, but the mastery of space time, mutaplasmids, and entropic weapons is undeniable.
Personally the fact these worlds are not uninhabitable and are being adapted is a point in the Triglavians favor, not against it. The organisms that live there will continue, if an artificially altered state.
Gentlemen, @Ignuceque_Arnolles @Bravo_Atruin I do believe that this discussion is something more worthy of the Off-Topic Thread.
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