When is CCP going to crack down on the multibox bullies and botter in ice fields?

(Master Rampa) #1

Is it not time for ccp to crack down on multiboxers and botters in ice field that make it inpossible for others to mine in there. it seems that as long as you have multiple accounts you can get a way with anything in eve anymore.

(Karak Terrel) #2

Fun fact: A multiboxer is the exact opposite of a botter as they are probably some of the most active players in the game.

So what is this rant about, botting or multiboxing? Or just in general you getting outperformed?

(Elena Laskova) #3

Multi-boxers and botters both mess up the balance between people and potential ISK income.

If a significant proportion of the mining (of ISK, raw materials, or SP) is generated by either group, a sensible 1-account player should stop playing.

(Karak Terrel) #4

Why should someone stop playing just because one particular game mechanic is multiboxable? There are a lot of other parts of the game that don’t suffer from this problem.

Also I hope, no one thinks asking CCP to remove multiboxing is even remotely a realistic demand. They get a lot of revenue from the fact that people use multiple accounts for various things, not just multibox mining.

A more reasonable demand would be to change mining so it isn’t so easy AFK-able which makes it attractive for botting and multiboxing in the first place.

(Elena Laskova) #5

It makes no sense for someone to play a game where the acquisition of essential elements (in this case ISK and raw materials) is “rigged” in favor of a class of player to which they do not belong.

Clearly in that case they’l have to work a lot harder than average just to play. Or pump in RL cash to get resources instead of playing the game for them.

The most obvious sign that the economy of a game is “rigged” is large-scale economic botting and/or multi-boxing. If a game company has become addicted to income gained by favoring certain classes of player that way, they have to live with the fact that they’re also addicted to reducing the interest of all other classes of player.

As a matter of interest, the first time I saw in this kind of discussion was when Ultima Online was still expanding. It’s nothing new. But I’ve seen several big game companies in denial about it since then - it seems the business as a whole does’t remember old lessons.

Denial doesn’t change the facts though.

(Omnathious Deninard) #6

This is a High Sec issue, there is a group called CODE who has ways to deal with AFK miners and bots.
Just don’t forget to purchase a mining permit.

(Karak Terrel) #7

Yes, but again, mining and resource acquisition is not the only reason people multibox, people use multiple characters for all sorts of things. Some casual players use two accounts to enable gameplay for themselves they would otherwise have to fleet up with others which they maybe don’t have time for.

I’m not sure why you speak of denial, no one is actually saying that there isn’t a problem with this big mining fleets. What I said is that it isn’t of much use to moan about multiboxing and that we rather discuss solutions that are actually realistic to getting implemented.

Those miners usually use tanked Skiffs and they are extremely expensive to gank and need a huge fleet to muster the damage, so many that if you have those people together you can as well just gank freighters and actually get some loot for your troubles. See the issue?

(Omnathious Deninard) #8

I won’t argue with that, it’s unfortunate that players are not able to deal with things like this themselves, used to be able to war dec them if they were in their own Corp.

The only other option presently available is to muster a fleet and put mine them.

(Elena Laskova) #9

CODE don’t do the good things they claim. Maybe once … but I was around when they were new, and even then they didn’t “practice what they preached”.

They’re just extortionists who enjoy the process. It’s game-legal of course, but don’t pretend they do anything useful.

(Taloris Aldercain) #10

CODE is a group that provides the game a service and should be recognized for how they’ve attempted to strive for the betterment of the game while also providing quality content to its players.

(Elena Laskova) #11

If CODE actually did what they claimed they might do some good.

But they don’t.

(Solecist Project) #12

People who don’t understand that this game is based on natural laws and instead ask for those, who are too weak, to be favoured … don’t understand that with any changes helping the weaker ones, the strong ones will leave. It is unfair to those who are better to help those who are too weak.

The end result is a society of weaklings, killing the game.

The correct course of action is to teach people like the OP how to help themselves, instead of making up ■■■■■■■■ arguments that ask for CCP to step in. The reason is irrelevant, the outcome is what matters, and not only is the outcome predictable … it’s also horrible.

(Tater-nuts) #13

I understand what you are saying, but I have a slight issue with this statement. The problem with ice belts is that they re-spawn with known timers. I know multi’s that set an alarm ffs and are out on in the ice field seconds after it spawns. Less than 10 minutes later they have it hoovered and they dock, set their alarm and go back to sleep.

I would argue the mechanic is as more to blame than the OP inability to compete. I believe ice fields should be like the old grav sites that needed to be scanned down and could pop up in any system. Make players move around and make them do some extra work, especially if multi’s wants to dominate, rather than just sit in one system day in, day out.

Also, OP should hop in a frigate and move around to different areas and scout potential ice spawns. There are plenty of ice fields that last hours, usually found in the “back woods” of EvE. You can find ice systems on Dotlan, if that helps.

(Leah Crowleymass) #14

At the risk of turning this into a CODE thread…

When I regularly (or even occasionally) see a CODE fleet warp into a belt and bump the 20+ ship “Dyson Ball Of Mining” comprised of suspiciously synchronized Skiffs, Orcas, Freighters and god knows what else (you know, the stuff that is actually damaging the game) instead of going after the solo Covetor for an easy kill then I’ll give that some credibility. But until then, it’s ganking for the sake of ganking.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that, per se- it’s allowed by the game, it’s an accepted way to play, and it keeps people on their toes. I’m not going to tell people how to play or what to do- you do you.

Gank if you want to gank. But the “we do it for your own good” trope gets a bit tiresome after a while. Nothing wrong with saying “I shoot people because I like to shoot people”. :wink:

(Solecist Project) #15

You still first need to teach him how to deal with them, otherwise he has no ground to complain on. The OP has literally no ground for nothing at all.

I know how ■■■■ these assholes are, they hoover up everything they want! That does not change that they can be dealt with! They can be bumped and suicide ganked! If you can’t do that, then what’s your place there anyway?

When will people stop screaming for the weak, without having any idea if someone actually put effort into his side of the equation? Instead everyone’s just a ■■■■■■■ victim by default, no brains attached!

Bumping is available to everyone! There is no excuse not fighting back by all means necessary, and whining simply isn’t one!

Suicide ganking is an option to everyone! There is no excuse not fighting back by all means necessary, and whining simply isn’t one!

The OP did literally nothing but throw a shitty complaint at us and doesn’t even deserve the replies, because we can’t even tell if he’s legit!

It’s been four hours! He posted and left! He’ll eventually claim he’s been watching or doing whatever, but it’s still ■■■■■■■■. He came here to rant and nothing else.

We don’t know if his enemy is an actual multiboxer. We don’t know if his enemy simply has actual friends. We don’t know if OP has any friends and if he doesn’t, he has no ground to complain on anyway! If he has friends, why is he not talking about how they’ve tried bumping, or suicide ganking?

You know, ■■■■ that makes this look legitimate!

(Solecist Project) #16

Sure, but what would that help really? Then the multiboxxers would just roam more, scan more, and eventually hoover it all up anyway. I’m no fan of them either, really. Pedro and Me have been bothering some ourselves. You’d still be punishing real players more than the botters, because the problem isn’t finding the resources, it’s that they’re emulating a corp full of miners.

That’s the thing. The “problem” is that multiboxxers are simulating a corp full of miners. With that knowledge, ask yourself what you would do if it was an actual corp of miners and not a multiboxxer? Do we even have evidence - for this case - it was indeed a multiboxer and that the OP isn’t just a whiner crying about how he can’t compete solo? No.

Pedro and me had to deal with such “mining group” as well. We bumped his orca, we bumped his freighter, we bumped his mining ships, Pedro flat-out STOLE multiple freight cans full of ice … 300 million ISK of ice! Hahahahahaha that was hilarious! :smiley:

Another thing we do is just going to the ice belt in max yield ships, with our usual technique allowing for perfectly safe mining, and literally stealing the ore from under their noses faster than they can. THAT PISSES THEM OFF! :smiley:

So … despite any and all ideas making it potentially harder for botters/multiboxxers, in the end it makes it equally harder for other players, changing nothing. The only thing that would help changing the situation would be if miners were actually forced to properly compete … and thanks to mining being hogged by the worst of the worst, that’s not likely to happen.

Remember … a multiboxxing fleet is simulating a real group, thus you have to think of them as a real group, otherwise you’ll ignore the consequences for actual people. Any and all changes trying to target multiboxxers will also affect real mining corps doing the same things as multiboxxers.

IMHO what’s actually going to help is reducing the massive tank of skiffs, so they can easier be ganked. Maybe accompany it by a massive reduction of mass to make them easier bumped, too. But hey, I don’t know. In the end, all I know is that whatever idea someone comes up with is going to equally hurt all the legit players out there.

The first and foremost step should always be educating and militarizing the people who can’t deal with their opponents, and not whining to a higher power for changes.

(Daichi Yamato) #17

If only someone warned the carebears what would happen if barges didn’t have to choose between tank and yield and became too difficult to gank…

Oh right. We did!

Multi-boxing isn’t going away. But you can bump their orca/freighter away from the ball of miners to disrupt their mining. Try and steal cans with a stabbed miasmos.

I like the idea where ice belts move, but a new player with one account is going to have a harder time scouting several systems compared to a multi boxer that can check several systems at once.

The long term solution to nerf such mining balls is to give players (especially poor/new players) tools to attack eachother if they cannot compete directly. Nerf the skiff tank, cheaper wardecs and/or slower concord response time.

(Jonah Gravenstein) #18

The meek shall not inherit Eve; not on my watch anyway.

Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied. ~ @Ralph_King-Griffin

(Ciryc Lagrej) #19

Botting is a systemic problem that can only be solved or mitigated at the developer level at this point. From my laymen’s point of view they need to (unfortunately) implement an ingame captcha system probably around isk earning. Maybe like they randomly put it up or in a window when you need to go to get the isk earnings or some such. There’s nothing aside from reporting en masse players can do now ( which some groups are specifically refuse to do). Botting being stopped can only be implemented from Ccp at this point and it would require drastic (or what may be considered drastic) steps such as ingame captchas.

(Dracvlad) #20

I wanted this change because I could chose tank and most of the time use it, though I do have a max yield hulk or two which sits in the Orca’s bay so I change to that when no one else is in system.

There is no reason to nerf the skiff at all because there are enough people using other less tanky ships. You chaps just want easy kills roll up to a belt and be able to blow up anything there with no requirement to step up your game. Stop being bad. If you want to kill a Skiff or a Procurer multi-box or get more friends.

Above Sol detailed what he and Pedro did to multi-boxer ice vacuums. I just roll up in two skiffs and mine a load of ice in front of them, OK they mine more than me, but I irritate them when I do it and they can’t drive me away easily because most of them are bad.