Why deployable cyno beacons instead of the old cyno system?

[leavwiz]

agreed, something needs to make it NOT deployable by the usual site runners and rookie ships and fast movers. This just adds yet another wrinkle for defenders that already have to decide on short notice whether to defend an ESS or rush to a mining belt, or go to some hapless ratter. I feel the blob pvp gang is being given too many tools and the defenders having to have too many response variations.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Kenneth_Feld

Yes, i am on the CSM, no i don’t know how big the item will be (I picked 500m3 out of thin air), i am just playing devils advocate…

Then don’t post crap that people could interpret in wrong ways?

@Cypherous

i am well aware of it, they should be following your dictors around seeing as you seem to have them in the same area so there shouldn’t really be much of a delay unless you’re doing something wrong

Correct: Dictors. You have several fishing rods but not the same number of cynos. Hence the delay and hence the point that there is no “immediate cyno” after you bubbled a super.

@Cypherous

The fact that they didn’t would seem to tell me that there is going to be a cost associated with it, i wouldn’t expect them to be anywhere near as cheap as you’re hoping they will be, they will provide options but not be a straight replacement for actual cyno ships

Then we will just get another useless thing and devs have wasted precious time that they could have spent fixing EVE instead. I’m not fine with that either.

[Cypherous]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

Correct: Dictors. You have several fishing rods but not the same number of cynos. Hence the delay and hence the point that there is no “immediate cyno” after you bubbled a super.

Sounds like bad planning, gather more cyno’s and hunt more efficiently then i guess

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

Then we will just get another useless thing and devs have wasted precious time that they could have spent fixing EVE instead. I’m not fine with that either.

Useless to you doesn’t mean useless entirely, these arne’t likely to be designed to just be spammed everywhere for everything making an entire change mostly redundant and reducing the value of ships that can actually light cyno’s

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Cypherous

these arne’t likely to be designed to just be spammed everywhere for everything making an entire change mostly redundant and reducing the value of ships that can actually light cyno’s

The mere introduction of them makes these ships’ roles less valuable. Why are they being introduced when the entire point of removing cynos from most ships was to give these ships a role and to reduce the number of things that can light cynos? They serve no good purpose if CCP still believes in their original statements for limiting cynos.

[Jenn_aSide]

Ccp Rise said on Reddit thst the new deployable cyno can be used in tether range.

Also, this os nothing to freak out about. Its basically a non combat travel cyno deployable that apprently is going to be squishy as hell.

Its not going to replace the much faster and more reliable “Russian doll” cyno team (bomber the covert cynos on a recon that lights a regular cyno for capitals), even if every subcap can have the deployable in cargo.

But their are going to be lots of cyno killmails…

[Cypherous]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

The mere introduction of them makes these ships’ roles less valuable.

Again, depends on the restrictions in place and the costs involved, yes in some scenarios they might end up being less useful

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

Why are they being introduced when the entire point of removing cynos from most ships was to give these ships a role and to reduce the number of things that can light cynos?

Because we don’t yet have the full list of requirements nor the build requirements, if they end up taking up 500m3 of space and costing 80mil to build its not going to massively increase the number of ships that can light them

So until we have some more numbers this is mostly all speculation

[Gerard_Amatin]

Ah. Reddit.

I’d like information to be here on their official forums, as I avoid that other place.

But thanks, good to know!

[Kenrailae]

This… actually sounds like an interesting change. Cyno’s being restricted to just cloaky stuff is kind of dumb, and this is a halfway house between letting more ships do it, and just having every ship do it. Will wait for numbers before taking a side.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

@Gerard_Amatin

I’d like information to be here on their official forums, as I avoid that other place.

You really expect this when they don’t even put that information into the dev blog?

[Gerard_Amatin]

Agreed, neither cynos on every ship, nor cynos restricted to recons seems ideal. Let’s see how this works out.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

The bubble it launched lasts for 2 minutes. Coincidence? And by warping back, burning in, launching a new bubble and cloaking, you cannot even be attacked by the super. Granted, the dictor needs to be competent.

You and Cypherous have apparently both missed the key point of it being a 2 minute activation time.
Inhibitors have a 1 minute activation time.

[Zhalyd_Lyehin]

Maybe but I don’t think that they will be lit within range of an inhib. Especially on supers, they would die quickly. That aside, a good point.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Zhalyd_Lyehin

Maybe but I don’t think that they will be lit within range of an inhib

At which point you now aren’t keeping tackle on the ship plus lighting the cyno with just one ship, and ships coming out of the cyno aren’t coming out already in tackle range.
Also they can drop the inhibitor AFTER you drop the cyno. So there are counterplay options that didn’t exist before.
Note, these are not impossible to overcome problems, but it does make the deployable a very different affair than a cyno on a ship.

[Kenrailae]

That 2 minute delay is a big deal. One of the biggest issues with cynos. Approach, scram, cyno, bacon. I’d actually want CCP to go one further and make it large enough it’s a pain for dictors to carry. You wanna cyno? Give up 200m3 of your cargo? What? That means you can only carry half your bubbles? Huh… Who’da thunk it?

[Cypherous]

@Nevyn_Auscent

You and Cypherous have apparently both missed the key point of it being a 2 minute activation time.

No i know it has a 2 minute anchoring time, i’ve said it multiple times

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Cypherous

No i know it has a 2 minute anchoring time, i’ve said it multiple times

You just showed how dumb you are by not reading beyond the first line of my post. Well done.
Now would you like to go back, read the whole thing and try again thanks before rage posting.

[Cypherous]

You only had 1 other line which wasn’t exactly relevant to the point about it being 2 minutes, deployables have restrictions on what can be in range, in this case 200km from other inhibs and that will likely be extended to mobile beacons aswell, so they won’t be able to be used within range of each other, so i assume you’re attempting to say that the target is going to drop an inhib before you can drop the beacon, which is possible, but unlikely as they are still going to be tackled anyway and these beacons arne’t going to be the only method of generating a cyno in the fleet, so by dropping an inhib all you do is prevent your own fleet from being summoned not the enemy fleet

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Cypherous

You only had 1 other line which wasn’t exactly relevant

The other line was the entire point, well done continuing to prove your astounding intelect.

@Cypherous

in this case 200km from other inhibs and that will likely be extended to mobile beacons aswell, so they won’t be able to be used within range of each other

Why yes, lets make the counter module not able to be placed in range, that’s a super smart thing to assume CCP will do.
Now I mean, it is possible CCP will make that monumental a muck up, but it certainly doesn’t make sense to assume they are going to be unable to be deployed as a counter.

[Kenrailae]

@Cypherous

deployables have restrictions on what can be in range, in this case 200km from other inhibs

That’s a fair thing to point out, and the exact type of something CCP would overlook. But, not all deployables have those large range restrictions either. Containers(do people still use these?) bubbles, etc. It’d be a good thing to point out to CCP. Hopefully they’d be smart enough to allow these two structures to be anchored in ‘range’ of each other.

[Cypherous]

@Nevyn_Auscent

Why yes, lets make the counter module not able to be placed in range, that’s a super smart thing to assume CCP will do.

Well yes, you’re not supposed to be having a deployable battle, its the reason you can’t put multiple of the same close together, they aren’t going to play rock paper scissors with deployables lol

@Nevyn_Auscent

Now I mean, it is possible CCP will make that monumental a muck up, but it certainly doesn’t make sense to assume they are going to be unable to be deployed as a counter.

They can be deployed as a counter, but it would have to be deployed first, its a simple arms race, the inhibs arne’t going to be a get out of hotdrops free card, if you can predict its going to be used and deploy it first then sure, but it would be even dumber to assume they would completely eradicate the element of surprise with a deployable that is a hard counter

@Kenrailae

Hopefully they’d be smart enough to allow these two structures to be anchored in ‘range’ of each other.

Unlikely, they directly counter each other, its the same reason you couldn’t have a POS cyno jammer in system alongside a POS cyno beacon, its one or the other active in the same sphere of influence so it makes perfect sense that whoever gets their deployable down first wins the race

It means the avoidance tactic needs to be proactive not reactive