Why Eve is not a PvP game

[Apo_Lamperouge]

@Lucas_Kell

I agree, since PvE is the core of EVE.

no, its equally important. there isn’t one core aspect of the game. we can play on the test server as pvp only as everything but supers is seeded. pve is worthless there because there is no demand for anything other than skill injectors. why would you mine? no one is buying ore or needing ships for anything, again other than supers, and you can buy parts for 100 isk each. how does that make pve a core of the game? it doesn’t. this game does not live in a vacuum of one thing versus the other, its a whole system that balances the other. miners mine to build stuff for pvp’ers to blow up. if theres no demand for miners to mine stuff to build stuff for pvpers to blow up wheres the market?

[Nordak_Balrem]

You do realise I posted contrary to the OP’s statement that EVE is not a PVP game… He nitpicked a small argument about value of ships without a information based approach, so… Are we even barely able to stay on topic.

@Nordak_Balrem

I’m going to post to the entire thread as a whole, EVE is whatever you and others want to make it. No point arguing to what that means as people are going to try and make sand castles, and others are going to go around trying to knock down sand castles.

If you go making the sole perspective of PVP, the game still needs to incentivise industry to support you and others to make things to fight over. The reverse is also true, it needs to incentivise the destruction and disruption of production.

Right now the game is in a somewhat unhealthy state, there is too much stuff. This makes it unproductive to build more stuff at the moment, If you look at the most important things that needs built, ships, you actually lose value when you build the hulls.

We either need the devs or better yet, the players to remove the glut of over produced goods from the game.

While OP is correct in many aspects, mining is not the core activity in the game, every facet of the game from PVE activities to PVP activities are core to the eve experience. If everyone was mining and producing all the time, then you get a point where nothing is worth making or doing.

[Nordak_Balrem]

@Lucas_Kell

@Apo_Lamperouge

we can play on the test server as pvp only as everything but supers is seeded. pve is worthless there because there is no demand for anything other than skill injectors. why would you mine? no one is buying ore or needing ships for anything, again other than supers, and you can buy parts for 100 isk each. how does that make pve a core of the game?

But that’s the test server and has different rules to the live server. Yes, if you seed everything then there is less need for PvE, but as it currently works on the actual game server, PvE is an absolute necessity while PvP is not.

No PVP will remain necessary otherwise ships will get blinged out to the point that losses are near impossible. PVP provides a necessary sink that removes value from the game and keeps the industry aspect of the game viable. No one wants a pure seeded environment, as that is not a sandbox.

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@Lucas_Kell

Not correct. It just means that PvE can be interrupted by PvP. It doesn’t stop the PvE mechanics being PvE.

Oh you are correct that the PvE is still there but it will always be at the whims of PvP…you can hack relics all you want (PvE) but you will (should) always do it while madly mashing your D-Scan button for PvP.

@Lucas_Kell

you just got through explaining how you think PvE doesn’t exist,

Please directly quote where I said that “PvE doesn’t exist” please…Above, you quoted me saying that PvE is superseded by PvP…nothing about not existing…

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@Runa_Yamaguchi

Eve is a PvP environment where you can perform PvE activities…

Guess you missed that one…

EvE is a PvP game where you can do PvE activities but those actions will always fall under the PvP environment (the relic-hacking example again). Never did I say it doesn’t exist.

[Solstice_Projekt]

Your new look is weird.
I really hope it is you, actually.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Lucas_Kell

I’d engage in industry regardless of whether there was demand for it because I enjoy building up my own personal stock of BPOs and assets.

Really? You would keep paying $15/month to press the “build space battleship” button just to build up a stockpile that you will never use or sell, purely to see how many times you can press the button? And you honestly think enough players would continue to pay for this activity that CCP would survive?

@Lucas_Kell

But that’s the test server and has different rules to the live server. Yes, if you seed everything then there is less need for PvE, but as it currently works on the actual game server, PvE is an absolute necessity while PvP is not.

And here you demolish your own claim. If demand is irrelevant and PvE players would continue to play purely to build up stockpiles then the test server should be full of PvE players. There’s zero PvP threat to disrupt their PvE, and the fact that the market is already seeded doesn’t matter if you aren’t trying to sell anything. So where are the people spending months/years of time pressing the “build ship” button on the test server?

The answer of course is that demand does matter and that if you take away the market hardly anyone has any interest in building stuff. Success at industry only has value to most players if it is obtained in the PvP game of competitive capitalism by being better than the other players.

@Lucas_Kell

Sucess is when you use your laser on the rock. Failure is when you don’t do that.

Nope. “I declined to do the activity” is not the same as “I tried to do the activity and failed”. Once you have decided to mine there is zero chance of failure outside of interactions with other players (or the occasional triglavian spawn). Your ship stats tell you exactly how much you will mine per cycle, the ore passively sits there while you extract that much per cycle until you have obtained the total amount that was available. If you decide you want to mine X units of ore you will, without any chance of failure, mine X units.

Unless a triglavian anti-AFK squad spawns the only place where you see any opposition between two sides in mining is between players: competing for scarce resources, defending against players who want to kill the miner, and engaging with the player-driven market to maximize profits. Therefore mining is a primarily PvP activity, and an almost exclusively PvP activity outside of highsec.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Lucas_Kell

Again though, this is built on the assumption that people only engage in PvE because of the consumption from PvP. Single player farming games show that players will engage in even the most inane PvE for no real reason other than the entertainment of doing so, and I don’t imagine that’s different in EVE. I’d engage in industry regardless of whether there was demand for it because I enjoy building up my own personal stock of BPOs and assets.

You must love a single player game about building up a stock of paperclips then!

(Fun game by the way, try it!)

The downside of PvE gameplay for me is that more than a single playthrough doesn’t really keeps my attention, unlike a PvP game. Scriptable scenarios will after a while become predictable and boring, unlike people.

[Corwin_Dnari]

It seems to me there’s a difference between “consent to PvP” and acknowledging that PvP exists and no one is exempt from it…

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Lucas_Kell

Yeah absolutely, some people will feel that way, and Merin is one of those people. But that doesn’t stop the existence of players who do enjoy the PvE experience. I guess that’s my issue with many of the heavy PvP players arguments is that they want to be able to interrupt everyone because they enjoy that gameplay, but a PvE player isn’t allowed to just enjoy building a pile of broken rocks. It’s like the idea of someone getting to enjoy a sandbox game without instantly getting their castle stomped on by the fat kid is inconceivable to them.

Edit: Great, thanks a bunch, now I’m making virtual paperclips.
Edit2: Heck yeah, wire at $15 a pop.
Edit3: It’s actually quite a good game

Issue with people who enjoy the PvE experience but want no PvP experience is that they’re not at the right place in EVE, and perhaps would enjoy another game better. I enjoy a PvE experience because it is more than just shooting rocks. The fact that people can come and kill me while shooting rocks keeps shooting rocks interesting for me.

Your previous comment made me remember this paperclip game, now I’m playing it again while orbiting ice…

I’m at 21 million paperclips produced now

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Lucas_Kell

Is that previously saved progress or are you just really efficient? I’m at 20k.

Started after I made that post. It keeps scaling up significantly.

[ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode]

Removed some off topic posts. Keep it civil and on topic, thanks.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

paperclip game looks fun , were do you guys mine ice?

[Gerard_Amatin]

Somewhere in null.

@Lucas_Kell yea it’s addicting…

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Gerard_Amatin

Somewhere in null.

oh , thats not good , if was i high i would put the old skiff on the ice to meet you guys

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Lucas_Kell

This should be how PI works.

I’d rather not… you clearly don’t know the end yet.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

@Gerard_Amatin

I’d rather not… you clearly don’t know the end yet.

it involve porn?

[Gerard_Amatin]

@tutucox_Khamsi

it involve porn?

If paperclip drones are your kind of thing, then maybe?