Why I care about new players, and you should too

In EVE Online, where industry brimms and interstellar battles blaze, every player has a pivotal role regardless of tenure. However, new players, often overlooked, are the unsung heroes driving the vitality and dynamism of the EVE universe. I ardently care about them, and here’s why you should, too.

The very soul and vigor of EVE Online are predicated on player retention. Consider this: New players are the lifeblood that fuels the economic engine of EVE. Unlike their veteran counterparts, who have amassed their arsenals and are often in maintenance mode regarding investments, these newcomers are voraciously engaging with the in-game economy. Their pursuit of building, equipping, and flourishing makes them indispensable contributors to the market dynamics. They are not just consumers but active participants, infusing life and zest into the game’s fabric and investing a lot of active online time. Now, to the pressing concern that I see arising for me.

Why are most Council of Stellar Management (CSM) representatives out of touch with the challenges these new players face?
It’s not a question of apathy or neglect. Instead, the predicament is one of perspective. Years of gameplay, myriad experiences, and a certain stature in the game often shroud people’s perspectives. Immersed in their advanced gameplay, they might inadvertently overlook the genuine struggles of those just starting. I can see that some want to care, as many candidates are for ideas thrown in the ring by other experienced players (who themself face the same point of view problem). Ideas are presented, such as making a new player-to-corporation speed dating; explaining to new players how to best proceed in EVE, or improving the situation of new players joining established corps to partake in better ISK income streams. Not to say otherwise, concepts like introducing new players to established corporations or optimizing their in-game income are indeed valuable. However, they don’t strike at the heart of the real challenge.

To elucidate, let’s traverse the journey of a new player in EVE:
Their initial experience, updated by CCP, is nothing short of enthralling. The tutorials are intuitive, engaging, and create an ambiance of wonder. This is an applaudable feat and shows how player experiences should be crafted. But what happens next?

Contrary to the belief, there is more integration of the new players to help channels and corporations, as one might think. A plethora of corporations and organizations reach out, offering guidance, and serving as valuable anchors in their journey. The initial forays are, in fact, designed to captivate, and the game largely succeeds in this endeavor. Players might leave within the first fortnight, an utterly natural attrition rate for those merely testing the waters. Up to this juncture, EVE Online crafts an engaging narrative for newcomers.

However, the transition from this honeymoon phase is where the challenges begin. Approximately two months in, players who became committed participants of EVE, and even often stepping up to an Omega status, encounter a wall. They’ve painstakingly amassed ISK through the minimal income ways of playing with beginner ships, invested in their first better ship, and finally engaged in an improved and faster way to accumulate riches in the future. For the veteran players here, these ways are still very slow on the income. But these necessary and essential steps make them alluring targets for high-sec gankers. While the loss might be trivial for seasoned players, for a novice, it’s devastating. Days, sometimes weeks, of grind can evaporate in mere seconds, hand in hand with the joy of playing the game. The adage, “Only fly what you can afford to lose,” albeit wise, is of little solace. They had cautiously saved ISK to finally make the “big progress” to their gameplay and just to be reduced to insignificance. EVE risks losing its most promising newcomers during this critical period, the 6 to 8-week mark. It’s a wall of death regarding player retention.

But the challenges don’t end there. Glancing through the corporation tab reveals a graveyard of small corporations — fledgling corporations, started with zest and zeal, now rendered dormant. These aren’t mere statistics; they are poignant tales of enthusiastic players, attempting to carve out their unique narrative, banding together with allies they made along the way. Not everyone desires life within a mega-corp. Many yearn for smaller ventures with their newfound friends, doing it themselves and experiencing this side of EVE. Yet, these ventures face insurmountable odds. Odds that were different way back, and here I would like to see CCP have a close look to improve mechanics to even out the odds.
High-sec space, in its current iteration, is inadequately equipped to nurture these growing entities. The high-sec space cannot provide enough content for these new player corps to grow to the necessary size and strength to survive. The entertainment, the fun, the wonder of new experiences, and the essential materials needed on the production side to live through the time of growing for a corporation are not provided by the current iteration of the high-sec by CCP. Here, EVE hits the border of possibility, of what can be archived in high-sec. For a fledgling corporation, transitioning to low-sec presents a gamble too steep for what could ever be gained; it needs to be able to grow and to be ready for that step.

It’s crucial that CCP recognizes this chasm and forges solutions. A vibrant influx of new corporations, potentially banding together for more audacious endeavors in low-sec or 0.0 territories, would invigorate the EVE landscape. These newcomers deserve not just a chance but a conducive environment to flourish.

In sum, while the dawn of a player’s journey in EVE Online is beautifully orchestrated, the subsequent phases demand attention. For the vitality and longevity of our game, we must ensure that the aspirations and dreams of new players aren’t just kindled, but are nurtured and realized. In supporting them, we’re not just bolstering their individual stories but enriching the entire tapestry of EVE Online.

A Clarion Call to CSM Representatives
To the new faces of the CSM: There lies an opportunity, albeit challenging, to champion the cause of EVE’s silent newcomers. By doing so, many new players will remain unaware of your role, yet your advocacy can shape their journeys profoundly. While such endeavors might go unnoticed, the rewards—benefiting the game, new players, and the entire community—are immeasurable.

I’m open to dialogue for those intrigued by this sentiment and seeking a deeper dive beyond this brief note. While I’ve never vied for a CSM seat, my passion for EVE is vibrant. Find me in-game as Tikka, or send a PM, ping me in discords, and let’s foster a discussion for the betterment of our game.


Is this just another submarine anti ganking thread? Dressed up in civil language, a fantastic imaginary narrative, and a faux call for „open minded“ discussion?

For one, I recently met two friends who were legit 2 month old newbs trying to live in wormhole space. They aren’t represented in your made up story at all.

For two, your very first post on the forums was not so open minded nor receptive to discussion, posted minutes before this:

This whole post reeks of self righteous „I want to have a conversation but only to tell you my opinion“ kind of discourse.

If you actually want to have a discussion talk about concrete problems, not some imaginary narrative.


In your eyes, I might be a liar.

But I do care about new players and help them every day. Advice them, support them, guide them, and listen to their problems.

I also might be guilty of touching on a topic you dislike to be discussed. I am aware when even certain words are mentioned; one must go into search and destroy mode.

Still, I did it.

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Indeed, so would you care to explain concretely the problems newbies face?

I have run into 1 and 2 month olds in lowsec and WH space. How does this fit into your narrative? Or does their existence not matter?

Obviously they disabled their green safety so basically they’re on their own, right? Also how do you know they’re actually brand new players, especially in this game that’s filled with alts?

And just to make sure no assumptions are made here, my reply to you does not mean I endorse or reject the OP’s wall of text.

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I wrote in the last year with a friend over 7000 ingame emails to new players. I created a chatgroup for them and helped and discussed their problems. Your two friends are just two voices of many. Most of the voices pointed to the two issues I mentioned in the original post.

  1. The 6 to 8-week wall of death of player retention.
  2. The high-sec is not well iterated to help new corps grow to a size to flourish.

How to address the problems I am very open to discuss.
But doing it in a flame war writing style would be very taxing. Maybe someone with a podcast would invite you and me, and we discuss this there.

There are no easy answers, even if the problems are easy to point out. But a fruitful discussion might help to find them.

I need a TLDR.

Honestly, without reading this post in depth I really dislike how people take the “THINK OF THE CHILDREN” argument and suggest ideas that then have a different agenda but cloaked in that argument.

(For example, we need to have CCP implement my idea that helps a specific area of space BUT also helps the children!)

It makes me sick. And also who said we don’t care about new players? Seems to me CCP cares about them alot!?

I will leave CCP to care about the children. They have the data, tools, resources that average joe player doesn’t and frankly is wasting time posting about how to best help the children of EVE. UI improvements are in the right step.


I would agree with Tikka. The most crutial phase is between 6-8 weeks after new players have started. They first learn some basics and explore the game. Which is guided by the agent missions and sisters of eve quite nice.
The phase after that is grinding for money what is very slow in the beginning and if they looses this hard earned ship than, they stand again with nothing. Very often that leads to them quitting the game.
I talked to a lot of newer players and helped them with beginner questions as well, so I think I totally understand their problems.
It is very hard to build something up as a rooky especially when even high sec is not relativly safe. So many will never even think of going to lo-sec or nullsec when they even get shot down in highsec.
How to fix that is no easy task, but it clearly must get addressed or the number of new arrivals will deminish more and more over time.

that’s pretty interesting that you comment on this without reading it.
How do you know that he is refering to children of eve?

That actually only shows how open minded you are about discussions

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:face_with_raised_eyebrow: Usually this leads with abolishing ganking and making HS 100% PVP free.

I am also going to ignore that it’s your first post here throwing out the false claim that HS is not safe. :laughing:

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Don’t you get it? The children of EVE ARE THE NEW PLAYERS… You lack exposure to the topics discussed in many other threads…

Often people suggest ideas that help newbros and also have a political agenda (aka helping their interests) That is why I posted what I did because it happens so often when the vet wants to help the newbro but also is self-serving.

I would love a TLDR on this. :slight_smile:

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I don’t 100%, but I am highly confident they are. After I try to kill them, whether I succeed or not, it is either:

  • endless IRL rage about a venture loss (what veteran with billions of ISK would do that), or
  • conversation where they ask genuine basic questions about mechanics and fits (why would a vet waste their time asking about things they already know) and how they survived / didn’t survive

These sound reasonable and matches my experience. Most newbies I have bumped into, killed, convo‘d, and then helped find a home in FW or other group have quit because the game is too boring.

Literally, the ground up, rookie, small-corp-and-a-Dream, style of PvP in this game is unapproachable: there exists no „rookie pirate“ capability, it used to exist in high sec, and so with no path forward to compete with vets even in FW without doing boring PvE farming stuff that CCP wants people to do to pad playtime numbers, they simply quit instead.

The sterilization of the newbie path — specifically the space pew pew piracy path — leads to a perception that they have to „grind“ boring PvE content to fund their fun PvP. This typically takes two forms:

  • newbies who love the PvE grind and „one day“ will PvP (never comes), or
  • newbies who want to PvP but can’t be bothered to grind

In both cases they burn out.

(Edit: and nowhere in this is Ganking the problem, nor is addressing it a solution to retention problems, I see Brisc is bringing you up to speed on the modern debate around it in your hyperbolic/flame-war post I linked earlier).


Or… they just quietly quit playing the game.

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I literally cannot follow your line of thought:

  • me: these are newbs I see…
  • you: how do you know they are newbs?
  • me: this is how…
  • you: or they quietly quit! (Implying low retention numbers are my fault for PvPing in low sec and wormhole space)

I’ll answer your questions in good faith, I don’t really care to address your weird logic.

I don’t believe that a 100% pvp free HS would be fun.
And yes high sec is quite safe unless you want to build your own station :slight_smile:
What solution there could be to satisfy HS gankers and new players probably is a very difficult topic.
I am not experienced enough to suggest something. I myself only play since a year on and off. But I can see that there is a problem that needs to be discussed.
I did not know that in other threads the new players are called children, That’s why I asked you that.
I do not follow any agenda of any kind. I just want that the game will last long for the future, so I hope there will be a discussion about this on the new SCM 18.

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Nothing weird about it, definitely not implying anything, just added another option to the 2 scenarios you posted.

And here’s another option to add…

They come back with a gang of combat ships and kick your sanctimonious arse.

I hope they do. It would be what eve is about: player driven stories. Revenge. Plus retention goes up.

I get you don’t like me, but let’s conclude this derail about whether or not I talked to real newbs here?

I wonder what makes you so dismissive. Is this a character you play here? (No planned insult here.)

Anyway, you might not see the ganking of new players as a problem for the new players. In the feedback I got, it was part of the basket of issues.

Regarding my agenda:
After 20 years of EVE, and the feedback of our “ask the new player” task, I decided to post it here to present the findings. It’s not a lie. It’s not an evil agenda, I do not hate people who gank; I just post my findings because I care for the game.

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Where am I dismissive? I feel there’s a miscommunication somewhere.

I literally agreed with you and elaborated further on why:

Then I might have misread this. Would you be open to discussing these problems we are both seeing if someone (I don’t have anyone) offers us a platform to discuss this on a podcast?
It would make talking and looking at the ideas and arguments much easier.