See that right there is the crux of the problem. Obviously the only area that’s constantly been hit with the nerf bat is high sec space.
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Come to null. You’ll stay for the bubbles! Did we mention the bubbles?!
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That thread made me genuinely laugh out loud!
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My income keeps going up so I have to disagree. Back then most players considered 20-40mil/hr good highsec income, these days blitzing normal missions I’m guessing its in the 80-120m/hr range. it can go up to 200-300mil/hr with cherry picking burners. And players have been calling for nerfs to incursions, pretty much since incursions came out. I think there may have been a few, but as player fits and tactics improved I’m pretty sure incursion income is the highest it’s ever been.
It’s been a long time since I tracked mining income so I can’t be sure there, but sounds like moon mining adds a lot of value to highsec mining.
Trade/industry has always been variable income, what you put in determines what you get out.
Exploration is also something I don’t closely track, but many frigate sized mods have gone up and down in price with various balance changes, right now they are mostly up thanks to burner missions and the AF rebalance. There can be good value in 1-3/10s. On the data/relic site side I’m not 100% sure, but sounds like everyone says go to null/wh space for the good relic sites.
Yea the old forums were a gold mine.
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Do you have correct numbers for people playing one character burners in null sec ?
I do not. More LP, better reward + bonus. But less predictable mission spawning, and (probably) lower tier implants. Without ship loss I would guess it’s higher than in empire, but that’s not something I would count on in NPC null.
I think most solo players use a few accounts at a time and pull multiple missions, then run them in cheap fits. I’ve heard pretty big numbers for that, but that’s hearsay, so I can’t verify it.
Goons have a program where they have a stack of pulling characters that grab the mission then contract it to a runner, the runner roughly gets ~30mil per frig burner (5mil bounty + 25mil payout from puller), and the puller gets the reward + LP. As a runner you can make more than is possible in highsec as you can just pull a bunch of missions in a handful of systems and chain those. And the puller makes good isk with trading LP. I only know about that as I stayed up way too late one night and saw some guy streaming it.
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Is it wrong to be disgusted by how Goons have turned this mechanism into an automated ISK factory? I’m sure they’re not the only ones, but sheesh…
How exactly do you contract a Burner mission?
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Pull mission, Fly to mission (probably in a sub 2 sec align warp speed ceptor), Create bookmark, Dock up, copy bookmark, Contract bookmark to corp/alliance, wait for someone to run it, repeat
oh yea and the main station they use has 4 agents.
gotta say I’m tempted to go fix my gurista standing (easy btw, just run their epic arc), join up, and grind the standings so all my alts can pull.
Can you no longer just drag the bookmark from the agent conversation into a fleet chat? Been a very long while since I have done so, but I am pretty sure that was how we used to share mission bm’s for FW missions. Maybe I am mis-remembering.
Gotta say, I am seriously thinking about opening up a second account to do so. The only thing that’s holding me back is the thought of grinding 3 toons up to +5.0 faction standing (that and training Connections and the LP skill up on all 3). The thought of training all 3 into a ceptor makes it even less appealing.
Maybe. It’s been a while since I’ve ran any co-op missions…
Last time I tried that I couldn’t warp to it until the person that pulled the mission warped to it. but I admit I haven’t tried it in a while. Not 100% on the mechanics, it’s possible they are more simple, but what I said should work. There might be an issue with missions despawning at downtime? again something I haven’t looked into in a long time.
and you could probably just use a cheap t1 frig or a shuttle. just might lose a few ships every now and then to camps. But doubt there will be many bubbles based on my experience in npc null
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not sure what the arguments here is…
but recently using an alt…
I went from 0 to 300 pts for the event in about 3 days…
Sold all the loot and the salvage.
2.4 billion ISK in loot
340 million isk in salvage
950 million isk in Bounties
and i only did tier 5 of the bounty part 1 time.
so uhm yeah, dont loot and salvage if thats what you want…and i have no clue what my LP conversion rate would be as i did not track them.
What level missions were those and in what area of space?
Love the people who complain about mission loot/isk… Risk vs reward. I pulled 3x 10/10 in angel space while dodging combat scanning t3d gangs. Made 2.3b in 4.5 hours saturday night. Dont like mission rewards, dont do them 
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In 2009 I made 40 million isk an hour shooting and looting Friends of Nature in Deltole. Damn, it was way too easy to make tons of money back then, if you knew how at least, and nowadays it’s even worse.
they did this to limit “Gun-Mining”. Gun-mining back in the days provided a large part of the mineral basket (the general mineral supply). Players simply scooped the loot and refined it later. This has made mining even less ISK/hour than we have nowadays and mining (especially in highsec) was a super unprofitable income source.
That was the general reasoning behind that. However, this is still a thing (although it’s less than it was back then) and the “Drone-Goo” that we’ve had at that times were a significant contributor. Drone-Goo was removed at that time as well, which created the Drone-Region situation that lead to Drone Space being subpar to live in for years.
The buy prize for a single unit of trit was between 3 and 3.2 at that time, so yeah - it definately had a good impact.
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Very interesting me thinks… its complex how one thing can interfere or affect another, but in Eve its all a new learning experience for me. cheers for sharing this level of detail on this subject
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When I first started playing this game 10 yrs ago, there were lot’s of players mining in High Sec systems, I’m talking about fleets of mining ships. Back then it was all about can flipping to instigate combat. Most Mining ships didn’t bother with it and just moved on to another system. Then the Hulkageddon crap started and ganking mining ships was tagged ‘Emergent Content’ when in reality it was to test out game mechanics using cheapest ship fits available to achieve the objective of destroying Mining ships before Concord responded.
Mining ships have the tank of a wet paper bag and eventually over time due to that ‘Emergent Content’ crap, most Industrial players just stopped mining. Course some of those Mining ships started doing exploration Ore sites but that caused more work for gankers to find, plus the players in those exploration Ore sites could use D-scan as an early warning system.
So the game mechanics for exploration Ore sites was changed from being scanned with probes to being 100% warp to anomalies which caused even more players to stop mining. Because of that ‘Gun Mining’ became a major supply of Minerals and to help continue the ‘Emergent Content’ crap, once again game mechanics were changed with the removal of ‘Drone Poo’ and Meta 0 modules being replaced with Metal Scraps as well as an overall nerf to loot drops across the board.
Ever since then CCP has continued to ignore the actual reason why most players don’t do mining and instead does all kinds of fail in an attempt to get players into mining ships again, from doing feeble stat changes on mining ships to changes in Moon mining to the recently failed ‘Resource Wars’.
I blame it all on ex-CCP Soundwave & Co.
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If mining didn’t suck in high-sec everyone would be doing it. The only ones that do it consistently are the roving null-sec bot fleets that CCP refuses to do anything about. FOBs are actually more of a deterrent to actual players than bots (who are just programmed to warp to another system and continue sucking everything dry like a swarm of locusts).
CCP has yet to figure out why 90% (or whatever the current number is) of players remain in high-sec. It’s one of the few areas you can “do your own thing” with relatively low-risk and a minimal time investment.
Strange that 90%+ of development efforts are going towards 10% of the non-paying player population (I seriously doubt most null-sec players have spent a dime in years).
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