Why Your Empire Sucks


(Jin'taan) #1

Something I’ve wanted to do for a while is create some videos that help get people into the lore, like the original Day of Darkness series did for me when I found them. However, what I quickly realised is that it’s kind of difficult to get across just how alien and interesting the divergent cultures of New Eden are to people who can simply look at the archetypes they have (Gallente = Liberal, Amarr = Religious Fundamentalist, Minmatar = Tribal Freedom Fighters, Caldari = Corpratocracy) and make quick judgements rather than digging a few layers deeper and taking a look at the dark greys and darker greys that tend to make up the morality of the lore compared to real life.

As such, I wanted to reach out and ask the many goers of the fiction forums; What does your (or your enemies) empire do that is categorically f*cked up? What makes it an awful place to live? What every day activities would disgust anyone living on Earth currently? Anything from the smallest detail to the most overarching point, I’d love to hear it!

Hopefully, with everything I get from this, I’ll be able to make a video that rather effectively shows just why all the empires in New Eden are terrible places to live, and get people interested in the shear meatiness of EVE that way. Think of it as the 40k methodology :wink:


(Rivr Luzade) #2

Can they be worse than any capsuleer entity, though? I mean, we have slavery (Amarr), ruthless market manipulation and exploitation (Caldari), tribal restlessness by nomadic alliances as well as sedentary alliances who have suffocated any massacring around them (Minmatar) and … wait ,do we actually have something like liberalism? Arn’t all capsuleer organizations – even despite saying otherwise – just dictatorships?


(Kogilla) #3

It’s a complicated topic depending on how deep into the lore you want to go, and how far you are willing to step into the shoes of each ideology. But since you are speaking about how we perceive each empire with our modern sensibilities:

The Minmatar have had to pull together to resist being brutalized by the Amarr, so there’s not much in the way of intertribal conflict to bring up. There is one thing they do, as a result of their strong tattoo culture, that is pretty horrifying. Unfortunate Minmatar that manifest certain tattoos considered ominous or evil during the Voluval ceremony can be exiled from the Republic. Described in the Chronicle “The Outcast”.

There’s also the Valklear program, if it’s still ongoing, in which talented criminals are given a chance at a new life with a blank slate if they agree to become elite soldiers and survive a number of campaigns. It’s basically the Suicide Squad, but much larger in scale. Described in the Chronicle “The Valklears”.


(Duo Roman) #4

An important correction: Amarr = Slavery Religious Fundamentalist

Slavery, presumptousness and ostentation are the reason I don’t spare amarrian newbies, even if 1 day old, if I find them in a Wormhole.


(Marcus Rintel) #5

Gallente’s Liberalism is stifled by the inaction of its government. With it being a democracy, and simple majority rules, the Presidency and Senate are really stalemated when it comes to governance. It’s more of a “We got to this point, and now we can’t fix anything, cause no one agrees.” Then add in that the Gallente Senate and The Presidency are both located in Low Sec Space, it’s like advertising they can’t control the Empire.

Factions, such as the Black Eagles, run amuck. And the Hedonistic attitudes of most of the population produces a society focused on Pleasure, and less on the welfare of their fellows.

For all its problems, the Gallente Federation still is the best empire for indiviualism, and self responsability.


(Ibrahim Tash-Murkon) #6

The waste and misdirection of people and resources due to the whole Amarrian system. A Byzantine bureaucracy, a fragmented hierarchy of rulers set in competition against one another, a religious system cancerous in the way it infects every facet of administration and science all up and down society, and the tragic waste of the talents of trillions in the ridiculous institution of slavery generation after generation.

It’s a shambling corpse of a nation which is so ruined at this point that it stands very little chance to avoid being strategically outpaced by the other empires in the long run. If I had to put money on which of the empires will be the first to collapse or to be conquered or seriously weakened to the point of near destruction it would be the Amarr Empire.

Also, there are 30+ trillion people in the Empire so there’s never any parking spaces open.


(Jin'taan) #7

This! This is exactly what I wanted, all the little weird tid-bits that make the depth of culture these factions have which are so alien - and almost seemingly evil by our modern sensibilities - that I can bring up to the surface in wonderful fashion. Also, probably worth noting that the Minmatar did sort of kill the one Amarrian leader who tried to make their lives slightly less ■■■■ and use that to signal the start of the revolution, if I’m remembering correctly.


(Jin'taan) #8

Probably not, but most capsuleers don’t percieve themselves on the same vein of reality as the Empires (from an IC and OOC perspective), our actions are divorced from the setting as we know it’s not real. That said, perhaps a 5th covering the atrocities of the capsuleers would be a nice capstone after I finish the 4 major factions?


(Duo Roman) #9

Amarrian holy water is unclean, no matter the priest.


(Rivr Luzade) #10

Sounds very intriguing.


(Teinyhr) #11

If you’re talking about the Minmatar Epic Arc missions, “Wildfire”, it actually is centered around on the Wildfire Khumaak, which was symbol of a more benevolent Holder than the rest - Arzad Hamri, later known as St. Arzad by the Starkmanir - who declared days of celebrations, was more lenient with rest periods and even learned from Starkmanir tradition in turn; this in particular earned him the scorn of other Amarr, who eventually had him killed for treason and heresy, and installed a more proper, stricter Holder, Arkon Ardishapur in his place. This did not go over well with the Starkmanir who pretty much adored Arzad at this point; They wanted to avenge their beloved Holder, particularly one Drupar Maak. Thus he killed Arkon Ardishapur with his own scepter, later to be known as just Khumaak and less ornate than the original one (the wildfire khumaak) - in retaliation to this his son, Idonis Ardishapur had Starkmanir Prime obliterated from orbit - which was later considered to be one of the biggest catalysts for the Rebellion.

So, long story short, no they did not kill the one Amarrian Holder who was good for them, they adored him.

And AFAIK this is not IC information as both endings to the epic arc end up with this information being withheld from the public.


(Jin'taan) #12

Ah, my mistake. That’s a cool one for “Why the Amarr Suck” though!


(Lulu Lunette) #13

I love this thread


(Reginald Sakakibara) #14

If you’re looking for nuance within the empires, I think the Federation is really interesting because…

One of the issues I find fascinating about the Gallente Federation is the ongoing question of the Matari “immigrant” population, who appear to be treated as second-class citizens (insofar that they are actually considered citizens by the Federation). They represent roughly a third of the Federation’s total population, yet one central aspect of tribal culture, the receiving of the voluval mark, is looked upon by the Gallente as uncivilized if not barbaric (and according to the chronicle on tattoos, the Gallente even tried to convince the Minmatar to drop the practices surrounding “tattoo culture” entirely). Combined with prejudice and possible systemic discrimination, it may not be all that great to be Matari in the Federation.

Unfortunately, the issues brought up in the Federation Senate about this very issue are kind of inconclusive from either direction, though officially there is “no evidence” of systemic discrimination in the Federation (to which one vocal senator of Matari descent protests due to shortcomings in the study as conducted).

At any rate, against the backdrop of the millions of people who die each day to capsuleers, the plight of Federation-born Matari is fairly subtle in comparison. But if the world news articles involving the assassination attempt on Karin Midular (and later, reviews on discrimination within the Federation towards Matari) provide any illustration, the relationship between Gallente and Matari can be less than cordial (or in the case of Karin Midular’s assassin, result in outright conflict between the Federation and Republic).


(Jin'taan) #15

Mmm! Brilliant stuff to plug into the Gallente, nothing like a little bit of old fashioned racism and cultural imperialsm to slide in :slight_smile:


(Markus Jameson) #16

And in other news… a hitherto unknown terrorist organisation calling themselves the Amarr chapter of the CFBR (Commuters For Better Roads) have tonight claimed responsibility for the late empress’s assassination…

In an open letter to the Amarr government they claim to have funded the fleet that destroyed her vessel & hint at future atrocities if the empires roads don’t very quickly improve substantially…


(Samira Kernher) #17

Amarr:
Use of slavery, breeding facilities, mind controlling drugs and devices. Systemic racism. Religious violence and suppression of non-amarr cultural expression within the Empire. Abuses of the common class by the noble class. Genocide against the Starkmanir. Not really much to say that isn’t already obvious, it’s the parts of Amarr that don’t suck that is usually less thought about.

Minmatar:
Sham trials and death camps for Amarr prisoners and Amarr sympathizers. Religious violence and suppression of non-minmatar cultural expression within the Republic. One-sided law enforcement when dealing with cases involving Amarr or Amarr sympathizers living within Republic borders. Attacked the EVE equivalent of the United Nations. Segregation and discrimination as a result of the voluval ritual.


(Marcus Rintel) #18

Don’t forget with the Gallente, two of the Universe’s most respect Corporations are Gallente. Quafe, and The Scope. Both are widely praised, with Quafe being one that actually brokered a peace deal between the Amarr and Gallente!

Now don’t get me started on the Black Eagles, (who the Commander in the NPE for Gallente, is a member of!) and what they have done since they formed. They formed for the specific reason that the standard military of the Federation was corrupt, and unable to work properly.


(Elmund Egivand) #19

Here’s the thing though. The Black Eagles wasted no time performing their responsibility as the Secret Police, apprehending any Caldari sympathizer and traitors of the Federation, be it real or alleged. They do not follow any due processes and do not do trials.

The appointment of the Black Eagles, I believe, is the point the whole ‘Red Scare’ mentality (or in this case, Steel-Grey Scare) is solidified.

And only a few power brokers (e.g. Roden Shipyards) actually cared about what’s happening (because it affects them). Majority of the Federation citizens are too high or drunk or distracted to notice that there is something seriously wrong about this existing inside the Federation.

Also, the appointment of Jacus Roden as President kind of marked the obvious point when corporations big-shots are getting involved in politics (not to say that this didn’t already happen with corporations using their power to sway decisions made by various senators, but this time it’s probably more openly done).

As for problems with the Republic, well, there’s the issue with their crime rate (which is thankfully dropping), their very low tolerance for anything Amarr, even Amarr-devout Matari, etc. And that part about the Republic Secret Service being super shady with dealings with criminal elements e.g. the Cartel for the good of the Republic.

Let’s not forget that the Tribal Assembly and the Sanmatar post was established after a purge of every Parliamentary senator who is said to be a traitor collaborating with the Amarr Empire. No trials being done there.

Or the fact that despite supposedly united, there’s plenty of political intrigue along tribal lines. This Tribal Chief will attempt to form alliances with that Tribal Chief to undermine that other Tribal Chief and etc.

And how having the bad tattoo can cause the individual to be un-person’ed.


(Samira Kernher) #20

Honestly, the idea of a right to a fair trial is basically something that is lacking in general for the Republic. The same issue happened with the guy that murdered Midular. Quick sham trial declaring him guilty followed by an execution.

Minmatar justice is swift.