Worth blinging a Lvl 4 mission ship?

(Inir Ishtori) #21

Just to give you an idea of some of the possibilities you are missing right now:

I gave your Maelstrom fit faction ammo and three sentry drones of the same type, too. With Barrage the dps curve for Machariel would look quite a bit more impressive, but one should always look at the less optimal circumstances, too.

Heh, how the times have changed. Just a few years ago it was considered rather expected that one would fit at least 1 billion on a faction ship. Now it seems like in every corner of the universe there is at least one dude with his 10 gank accounts.

(Inir Ishtori) #22

Actually, yes, you do, in a certain way.
Since the Marauder tanks during Bastion are so strong, you need very few actual tank modules and can use the free slots for damage, application and mobility.
Bastion also “tanks” against EWAR, which can be, depending on the factions you go against, a real PITA and wastes quite some mission time.

(Whitehound) #23

Let’s try to speak the same language here. Needing… no, you don’t need a Marauder or a Marauder tank for L4s. But… Bastion Mode does make many missions into carefree child’s play.

(Arthur Aihaken) #24

If you enjoy blitzing - a Pirate hull is the best choice. But if you go for clears and salvage (particularly where EW applies) - Marauder, Marauder, Marauder.

Also keep in mind that with a Marauder you can run a paper thin tank. This translates into more gank, faster mission times and a higher ISK/hour (if those things are important).

(Inir Ishtori) #25

By that logic you actually don’t need a Battleship for L4s at all - a Gila is very fine, too, after all. And cheaper.

(Whitehound) #26

True. You don’t need a Battleship, but many want a Battleship.

(Chainsaw Plankton) #27

indeed, can do a 2 slot omnitank that tanks as hard as most 3-4 slot tanks on non marauders, can also downsize the rep so it’s pretty much cap stable. lets you fit 4-5 damage mods, with another 3+ application mods.

And with the MJD cooldown bonus you can get anywhere inside 200km in a little over a minute.

need to spend money to make money. For my trade and industry activities the more isk I put in the more isk I get out. Most of my profits go right back into buying more mats/trade items, and it compounds. Many null players work up to a super carrier for ratting, and that locks up what 20bil in one asset? But it helps them make a lot of isk, and makes their alliance stronger. There’s also rorqual mining which locks up billions in hull, fitting, and drones.

It is important to consider the payback period. If you are making 40mil/hr and can spend a billion to make 100 mil/hr it’s probably worth it. You’ll make your money back quickly If you are making 100 mil an hour it’s probably not worth spending a billion to make 101 mil per hour.

And anyways a lot of bling retains value so you can buy it and sell it back later if you want to switch professions or need some quick isk.

I don’t remember that, maybe 10+ years ago when ganking wasn’t very common, but not any time recently. I have a few kills on my KB of those 1bil fit ships. Also back then it was even cheaper to gank as you could use battleships and get the insurance payout.

Heck here’s what I said about it just a few years ago, (tl;dr just see what I already wrote it’s almost the same) and most other posters seemed even more paranoid about it. the 100m/10k ehp pretty much lines up with 300-500mil for most mission ships EHP levels. https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6764857/#post6764857

(Hipqo) #28

Lol no you dont. If you NEED a Marauder for level 4 missions, you are very bad at eve…
You DONT need to tank 5k+ dps, you dont NEED the Ewar resist (handy, true, but not really needed at all).
Marauders are total overkill for level 4 missions, never ment for level 4 and far from the ideal ship for a level 4.
They were designed for level 5 missions really, in lowsec.
Not to mention they are closing in on 2b price tag now, and a t1 battleship is 100-200m.
It makes zero sense to go for marauder for level 4, unless you plan on doing level 4 for the rest of your life.
Bastion makes everything easier, ofc, but so does siege, so you should proberly take a dread to level 5 missions in lowsec, with that logic of yours lol.

(Fluffy Moe) #29

I’d say if it keeps your total ship + fit (including ammo, drones, etc.) under 1 bil, its ok, though may not be necessary, not all deadspace mods are super expensive, you can get some cheap deadspace stuff for a few mil. If a T2 mod costs 2-3 mil and a deadspace one costs 7 mil for example, then why not ? the cost difference is not too big. But if it is then stay away.

The other time is where you need a ceirtain mod for specific function in specific content, for example an MWD with less cap penalty, or AB with better overheat bonusses, etc. Its all up to you really. For me, I look at the total fit cost and what I’m doing, if its of any actual serious use.

(Anize Oramara) #30

I actually use a Polarised marauder for a specific lv4 mission because it is the fastest ship for that specific mission (that I can currently fly).

So if my objective is to complete mission X in the fastest time possible, then yes, I do “need” a marauder.

What you “need” depends on what your objective is.

(Khan Wrenth) #31

In short, mostly no.

Typically you’ll get more use out of remembering mission triggers and strategic aggroing. It’s true that many deadspace mods are cheap (especially large repair mods since demand is low - medium-sized ones have been much higher priced even before abyssal space). But the thing is that as long as you know what you’re doing in the mission, and as long as you’re competently piloting your ship, you’ll never need that extra resist or repair power. It’s kinda an odd thing but probably also explains the low price for those mods - low demand.

The one thing that will help is using faction ammo or T2 ammo where appropriate, and probably faction damage mods. The problem is that because damage mods have no deadspace equivalent that would subsequently get farmed out in nullsec, you are left with only faction variants and they are expensive. I only ever used faction damage mods on my Paladin, because the damage boost worked well with the weapon system (long optimal and decent falloff). I never bothered with the Kronos or Vargur because, well, almost entirely falloff weapons means you’re wasting a great deal of damage potential already. And if we’re going to be honest, that Kronos is probably nuking the largest targets in two vollies anyways, so extra damage is a moot point.

In the end it’ll be you that decides what is worth it and what isn’t. As has already been eluded to in this thread, and I will also add my voice to, is keep the overall bling pretty low. Most bling won’t help you anyway, and too much will make you a target. If you’re new to missioning and all that, I’d recommend doing the resist mods since they’re cheap and help you survive until you get intimately familiar with the missions and their aggro triggers.

Once you are very comfortable running missions, I’d say spring for one, maybe two faction damage mods (remember diminishing returns, so going for three or more isn’t necessarily helpful). When you get to that point where you’re running one or two faction damage mods, see if you can switch your resist mods back to tech II so your fit has a minimum of blue on it, no matter what the real cost actually is.

(Imustbecomfused) #32

t2 battleships are overkill for lv 4 pve… try some lv 5 missions instead with them :smiley:

(Chainsaw Plankton) #33

Citation needed on that first part. I’d say they were the perfect lv4 ship when they first came out, but these days people mostly use pirate BS as they’ve gotten boosted and are way cheaper compared to years back.

Also I’d very much disagree with using them for lv5s, the sig radius and sensor strength combo makes them very easy to probe down, and a rattlesnake or carrier is pretty much cheaper at this point.

the pricing is very much a valid point these days though. The price hasn’t spiked high enough that I’m thinking of selling mine, but it is high enough I’m not thinking about buying more.

no such thing as overkill in eve. And anyways the faster you kill the faster you move on to the next mission/site and the more isk you make.

(Imustbecomfused) #34

most t2 battleships are out dps’d by the pirate faction battleships. why use a t2 battleship, when it does less dps if time/speed is the goal here. if thats the case, use an AF… I used a wolf to run lv4’s and made bank blitzing them. granted you cannot do ALL lv4’s but speed wise, the AF was much faster than blitzing with a BS at the time. t2 BS is more expensive to begin with. I know it has a huge tank. but even I wouldnt use a vargur for lv4. and I know because I have done them. Im using my vargur to blitz class 4 wh sites at a rate of 6 sites ever hour to hour and fifteen min. thats around 600 mill/hour salvaged.

for me, marauders are for pvp or high class whs…

(Sepheir Sepheron) #35

Poor detected

Marauders don’t have to fit full tank. Just a pith x type xlsb is enough. Fit warp core rigs, mjd, mwd, full damage tracking and gank. Salvage while you kill. Ideal ship for full clears. Properly done there will be less than three wrecks on grid at any given time during the mission. Rattle will clear faster, but marauder gains the salvage perk.

(Arthur Aihaken) #36

There’s paper DPS and then there’s applied DPS. All the Pirate hulls do more DPS on paper but any Marauder can apply it better and at further distance. When you factor-in salvaging, cargo capacity, required tank, etc. Marauders truly shine.

(Eternal Montage) #37

They’re not used for level 5s as much as you might think.

(Chainsaw Plankton) #38

Well that falls under killing and completing missions faster.

certainly some of the best places to use them, Like you say you can make some really nice income in higher end WHs with a marauder. The risk/reward level justifies using a marauder better than most lv4 running. But marauders definitely make lv4 running easy, so if that’s what someone wants they are free to do so.

indeed, Paladin is probably the best sub cap laser ship I prefer it’s range bonus to the Nightmare’s tracking bonus, also Paladin has so much cap it’s just easy to fly. Kronos is a well rounded blaster ship, Vindi can do more DPS but for missions I’d rather take the kronos, extra range and MJD cooldown mean you can use blasters very effectively. Golem ties most missile ships for DPS and is only a bit behind the barghest, here I take the barghest but that’s more for the missile speed bonus, and that’s a pretty niche thing. Mach vs Vargur is probably the one where I far prefer the pirate BS.

If your main concern is blitzing the dps + warp speed + speed + agility on the mach is just top tier. Marauders really aren’t very far behind though.

(Hipqo) #39

When they came out in Trinity expansion (2007) it was made for level 4 missions, then Rubicon expansion (2013) came around and Marauders got Bastion module, making them perfect for level 5 and wormhole farming.

(vr0p) #40

The Maelstrom performs poorly in all areas except sniping IMO. I blinged a fleet Typhoon and enjoy approx 1200 dps with it. There’s room for utility (salvage/tractor, or nos, or 2 turrets), propulsion mod, a fat drone bay that can hold a flight of sentries, mediums, and lights to cover all situations, and spare lows for drone or weapon application (tracking / guidance etc.).

Vargur is great too, but even before fitting it’s more expensive than the blinged fleet-phoon, and its 900-1000dps is always deep in falloff (actual applied dps is probably more like 600-700 to most battleships).