That was always my problem with it. Anything it brings to the table is done better by most, if not all, other marauders. It’s got anemic dps combined with fighting almost exclusively in deep falloff. And anything you want to say about capless weapons or selectable damage profile is done better with a Golem, which has immensely better range and applied damage to boot.
If there is something amazing about the Vargur, I’m all ears. I own one and it’s collecting dust. I only needed it because I really hate missiles in this game and I needed to inflict explosive damage on enemies and I had no idea how utterly bland the ship is otherwise. I wouldn’t have bothered training into it and buying it had I known it would otherwise be so lackluster.
The answer to whether it’s worth blinging a PvE ship is subjective. If simply grinding missions (or anom sites for that matter) .02% faster is your goal, then it’s worth it. But if you are doing it casually or for the content, then no it’s just a waste of isk and chances are you’ll feel bad when someone blows it up.
The truth is the increases gained are not at all proportionate to the increased cost of the items. A decently tanked T1 battleship will have no problem with an L4 mission. A 2bil isk loot pinata will also have no problem, and finish a little faster. Whether that is ‘worth it’ is entirely up to you.
A good rule of thumb is to fit a ship in line with it’s hull value. If you are throwing a billion isk at a hull like a marauder, then it doesn’t make much sense to skimp on fitting and go bargain basement there. Likewise, instead of piling gold and jewels on a cheap T1 hull, use that money for an upgrade in ship.
If you can afford both, then the entire question is moot.
Yeah the Vargur is probably lacking when compared to other marauders, but when compared to most of the Minmatar line which also all have the falloff “haha joke’s on you that’s not applied dps” problem, it is quite awesome. It does chew through frigates and cruisers like butter, something that a missile ship requires drones to slowly plink away at. Still, I prefer the Typhoon and Fleet Typhoon as cruise missile platforms (torps are too punishing on powergrid) and for their general cost effectiveness, despite having more skillpoints invested into turrets
A plain Tech2 fit will complete almost all missions just fine.
Sure 5% more dps means you shave 25-30s off your completion time.
But that’s largely irrelevant when the largest time sink in missions is the travel time from agent to mission and back to agent
I use a Polarized Vargur to blitz Pirate Invasion mission in Angel Space. It’s the fastest ship I’ve tried, and I’ve tried almost all of them, for that specific one mission.
Only ship I haven’t tried yet is the Vindi or the T2 version yet (blanking on the name), those might be able to blitz it faster due to sheer dps.
I do try to remember the triggers and starting fights at a range I decide, and even unblinged the Maelstrom works for me - I just like the sound of many big guns going off, and the lumbering shape does make it feel like a real battleship.
Ofc, sometimes I mess up. That’s where I thought a few shiny mods might come in handy. The poor ship is very bad at getting out fast, and in a few cases where I’ve been swarmed my shield booster has been running on autorepeat and I’ve still taken armor and even hull damage. Poor player skills, admitted, and I am working on improving them. In fact when I am prepared (right resist mods, good placement, right faction ammo) I can often blow up a significant chunk of the NPCs before I even have to cycle the shield booster.
So it might have been unnecessary in the end but I did pick up a nice fleet cap battery and a reasonably priced Pith shield booster. Even if I don’t actually need them (as long as I am careful) it’s an extra ace, and I can always use them for a new ship if I upgrade. It’s not like I lack skillpoints - I’ve been subbed for a long time but I haven’t played enough to learn how to actually use everything my character knows. I could jump in a Machariel or a Gallente/Minmatar Marauder today, but I’ve never used one so it would be a whole new learning journey. And I’d feel REALLY bad losing one of those for lack of experience - I could replace a Mach but not a Marauder, I’m not space rich!
LS burners. But once you take into account total set up including mission pullers and their necessary standings, the ships and fits, and total effort and actual time invested even regular HS burners overtake L5s. And then of course neither of these comes even remotely close to WH or NS ratting.
These days I don’t do much ratting in LS / NS / WH except some escalations, or occasional DED sites when I go explo and find a good one and refit on the spot.
This simply isn’t true. I have a full on lowsec burner setup and it’s a lot more effort for a lot more risk and a lot less isk. I know with absolute certainty from my own experience that level 5s make up to a bil an hour before factoring in loot. None of these other options can do that. Not even super ratting.
I’m currently setting up a nullsec burner alt(s) and we’ll see how that goes. Seems kind of dangerous out there so far though. From what I can gather It seems like the locals use a lot of tristans. Null burners MIGHT have level 5s beat, but it seams like it’s going to require a lot of accounts… and a lot of tristans, but if thats the case than risk is a lot lower. I don’t know, I’ll get back to you.
Point is–nothing with 2 accounts makes more isk in lowsec than lvl 5s. Nothing. I’ve done almost everything in lowsec to figure this out. Lowsec is kind of my thing.
TLDR : NS burners are(were) actually worth 2.6 more than HS missions at best.
Incidentally, if you can kill burners 2.6 times as fast in HS it’s not worth going in NS (taking deaths, camping, lower bling into account). Also, if you need more than 3 accounts to do the burners in the same time, you may as well use 3 accounts in HS each doing their own mission. Because yes, you can scale the burners in HS (3 accounts is okayish) - if you have the correct skills, fits and implants on each toon.
Oh noes, I have been doing this wrong! My apologies!
I managed to run all burners by my lonesome. Now if someone feels obligated to sponsor me 2 more accounts to which I cannot pay any attention anyways, feel free to do so.
there is a “IF” you did remove in your quote, which gives it a completely different meaning.
OK. I think you can’t understand what this IF refers to.
Some people use several accounts in NS to make burners faster. In effect you can kill the burners very quickly and with cheap fits (eg RR+AF). What I say is, that you can also use two or three accounts in HS to have your three burner runners , and though you won’t make as much per runner, it will still be close to linear for a small number of runners( ie 3), because warp time is important and some fits allow afk-ish kills.
I have a Mach fit for Mission and I might just get more into it before having to defend myself from incursion gankers who actually run in the fleet I found out.
They actually go out of their way to confuse and incite their peers to come and attack, making claims of improper action as ground to try to destroy incursion battleships I used to run before.
They found out cruiser ships were not really worth their ships to lose in high-sec for the drop value or damage costs.
To answer the OP’s question: Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose. I know someone who flies an officer fit Astarte (or at least did, when he played). The ship was very expensive, but when you measure your worth in trillions, well a few million for a module really won’t impact you…
So rather than saying “get a new ship” lets look instead at your fit: Replacing a t2 module with a faction (not deadspace one) will give you a few more fitting options. For example, I much prefer this fit for the Mael:
8x1400 T2’s
Tracking Comp II w/tracking script
T2 Invul Field
2xMission Specific Hardeners T2 (so for angels Exp and Kinetic)
100 Y-S8 AB (fitting concession)
Caldari Navy XL Shield Booster (~ 200 mil) - the one luxury, though you can get the Republic Fleet XL one through LP’s from Brutor Tribe and that will work fine)
4x Gyro II’s
1x Power Diagnostic II
Ancillary Current Router I
2x Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II’s
Better Tank while your Fit lasts 18 seconds longer, this fit boosts every 4 seconds, and your higher resists makes your burst tanking nearly twice as effective (this assumes you don’t run the AB and the booster for any appreciable period), but you’re not trying to run the booster all the time, only boost from 30% shield to 60% shield - maximize your regen.
Far better DPS and Alpha, you will kill things much faster if you maintain the range to offset your slightly lower tracking
For missions where you don’t need to move - (you can warp at range) remove the AB and put your battery in - your tank will last quite a bit longer.
The PDS can be replaced with a Tracking Enhancer II for more gank when you’re comfortable.
The biggest trick to running missions better is not to build a better tank, but to kill enemies quicker (something the Mach excels at - which is why people are suggesting it), nonetheless, your fit can be tweaked to be much more lethal (this is very close to a fit I use), additionally, there is room to improve, If you need more tank, swap the PDU II with a DC II (but you’ll need to drop some CPU elsewhere, for example drop the hardeners to t1 named vice T2, the DC II easily makes up the difference). In all cases, you should (as your skills improve both RL and in game) be working towards the minimum tank you can get by with and the maximum gank you can obtain.
