Yield comparison of the new mining ships

[Gerard_Amatin]

The Catalyst expansion has been announced, bringing us multiple new (mining) ships.

Now that the test server data is out, let’s see what the yield of these new ships is!

(I’ll assume max skills and no or the same amount of low slots used for mining upgrades - ships with more low slots can reach higher yield by adding more mining upgrades!)

The final numbers compared:

Ship	Effective ore lasers*	Effective gas scoops*	Mining links	Note
Venture	5	5.33	No	—
Venture Consortium Issue	5	5.33	No	Extra crit chance!
Pioneer	6.75	5.33	No	—
Pioneer Consortium Issue	6.75	5.33	No	Extra crit chance!
Outrider	5.25	3	Yes!	Mining links as strong as uncored Porpoise
Odysseus	5	6.67	Yes!	No mining link bonus

*Effective numbers are a function of turrets and ship hull bonuses and is directly related to their yield over time.

Or, more in detail:

Base comparison ship, the Venture.

• 2 turret slots
• 100% bonus mining yield and gas scoop yield
• 5% mining yield per level
• 5% reduction in gas scoop duration

These stats give the Venture 2*2*1.25 = 5 effective mining lasers
and 2*2/0.75= 5.33 effective gas scoops.

The Prospect huffs gas at the same rate by the way.

Pioneer

The Pioneer mining destroyer has 3 turret slots.

This gives the Pioneer 6.75 effective mining lasers and 5.33 effective gas scoops.

The Pioneer mines ore at a rate of 1.35 Ventures, or 35% more yield.
The Pioneer huffs gas at the same rate as a Venture and Prospect.

Pioneer Consortium Issue (faction mining destroyer!)

The navy version also has 3 turret slots.

This ship has exactly the same gas and ore yield as the regular Pioneer, except it has 50% bonus mining crit chance! whatever that may be.

No idea how much crit chance does or how much the ships get by default, so there’s no way to quantify this bonus yet.

Edit: crit chance is know known! See my other thread: Mining Critical Hits Explained

Venture Consortium Issue (a better Venture!)

It has the Venture’s 2 turret hardpoints.

Gas and ore yield is the same as the Venture, but again with 50% bonus mining crit chance, whatever that may be.

Outrider, a T2 Pioneer Command Destroyer (capable of mining links!)

3 turret hardpoints like the other destroyers, 5 highs total

This ship has an effective 5.25 mining lasers, or 5% more yield than a Venture.
Without gas scoop bonuses it huffs gas as fast as 56% of one Venture.

Not a mining powerhouse, this ship. However, it has mining links of the same strength as an uncored Porpoise, on a much more mobile platform that reposition your entire mining fleet 100km away with the MJFG whenever needed. Awesome!

Odysseus, a jack of all trades Sisters of EVE ‘expedition’ command battlecruiser

Has 5 turret hardpoints and a 50k m3 ‘expedition hold capacity’ which supposedly holds gas.

While unlike the other ships in this page not specifically a mining ship, it seems to do everything, including mining.

The ship has no ore bonuses, but with 5 turret slots it mines as fast as a Venture.
It does however have good gas stats! The Odysseus has 6.67 effective gas scoops, 25% more yield than a Venture.
In addition the Odysseus can bring unbonused mining command links!

Gone are the days of the Gnosis as best small-scale gas mining boost ship, the Odysseus takes that place now.

Questions? Remarks? Spot mistakes? Discuss!

[Dyver_Phycad]

@Gerard_Amatin

Gone are the days of the Gnosis as best small-scale gas mining boost ship, the Odysseus takes that place now.

Hardly. The Gnosis is cheaper, requires no specialized training and is far more readily available. Unless the Gnosis availability is severely limited, that conclusion is outlandish.

[Syzygium]

@Gerard_Amatin

Remarks?

Yes, what matters is Yield in m³/s under max conditions. compared to the already existing solutions like Barges, Exhumers, Boost-Gnosis, Boost-Commanddestroyer etc…

So while you are at it, maybe calculate that through

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Dyver_Phycad

Hardly. The Gnosis is cheaper, requires no specialized training and is far more readily available. Unless the Gnosis availability is severely limited, that conclusion is outlandish.

Fair, the Gnosis is cheaper and lower SP.

But if you’re looking to get better yield, bigger ore holds and an all-covert gas mining fleet the Odysseus appears to be a good if expensive ship.

@Syzygium

Yes, what matters is Yield in m³/s under max conditions. compared to the already existing solutions like Barges, Exhumers, Boost-Gnosis, Boost-Commanddestroyer etc…

So while you are at it, maybe calculate that through

As barges (and exhumers) use different equipment that isn’t as straightforward, but I can compare ORE mining lasers to ORE strip miners: An ORE strip miner Procurer mines at a rate 38% faster than an ORE laser Venture, assuming no mining upgrades for either.

This is just about the same rate as the new Pioneer and navy Pioneer which mine 35% faster than a Venture.

The rest of the barges and exhumers have more yield than the Procurer, but that is all old and not really interesting info so you can do the math for those! It appears that all of the new ships are in between the Venture and the barges, as expected from their type of ship.

[Aisha_Katalen]

The unknown so far is “wth are expedition command bursts”.

Beyond that it all seems a tad underwhelming, I’m still very worried about the Odysseus especially if it gets favourable slotting.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Aisha_Katalen

The unknown so far is “wth are expedition command bursts”.

This is known already from the same hoboleaks info.

They give:

• scan strength and hacking hitpoints
• dscan range, salvage range and hacking range
• scanning time and salvage duration

None of it relevant for mining though.

[Aisha_Katalen]

Ok so a big fat “no one cares” other than being a self contained explorer.

[Dyver_Phycad]

@Gerard_Amatin

But if you’re looking to get better yield, bigger ore holds and an all-covert gas mining fleet the Odysseus appears to be a good if expensive ship.

If you want to do covert mining, the Ody may be a choice. However:

• That’s not the use case of the Gnosis
• For mining itself, the Prospects are cheaper, easier to train, easier to get, easier to move/bridge around, easier to get out of trouble.

The Ody may work as a booster instead of a T3C, sure, but as a gas huffer for the masses, the other options are far more appealing.

@Gerard_Amatin

dscan range, salvage range and hacking range

That explains why Dscan range and other new attributes suddenly showed up in the Ship Info window. A change that never showed up in any patch notes, in good old CCP fashion.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Dyver_Phycad

The Ody may work as a booster instead of a T3C, sure, but as a gas huffer for the masses, the other options are far more appealing.

The benefit of the Odysseus is that it has a 50k m3 gas hold and a whole lot of effective gas scoops while bringing mining links to boost your gas huffing fleet.

It’s surely going to be an expensive option, but the stats are great.

@Dyver_Phycad

That explains why Dscan range and other new attributes suddenly showed up in the Ship Info window. A change that never showed up in any patch notes, in good old CCP fashion.

Well until now it had no gameplay impact, so I expect we’ll see patch notes about it soon.

[Aisha_Katalen]

I may be very wrong on this but other than “we got an alpha upgrade path” I’m not really seeing it much, this whole expansion.

• unless those Consortium versions are cheap they’re not worth it
• what’s the point of using a small ship for mining links if you lack the cargo to store the ore
• From an explorer pov the Odysseus is very cool but also very limited and “wrong”

My guess is that most Ody pilots will be “site guardians”, supplying boosts when needed but otherwise cloaked and waiting/hoping for some hapless Loki uncloaking on your small setup to then uncloak, punch the armour links and then absolutely destroy that poor Loki. Beyond that, and I’m repeating myself, an agile BC size ship with high dps, tank, versatility and covert cloak is scary AF.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Aisha_Katalen

I may be very wrong on this but other than “we got an alpha upgrade path” I’m not really seeing it much, this whole expansion.

• unless those Consortium versions are cheap they’re not worth it

Newbies have been asking for Alpha progress paths for ages and I expect (but haven’t seen it confirmed) that both the Pioneer and the two Consortium variants are all Alpha ships.

This means that instead of 1 mining ship Alphas now can choose between 4 ships:

• Venture, agile and cheap
• Pioneer, better yield and cheap
• Venture CI, agile, better critical mining hits
• Pioneer CI, best Alpha mining ship

That’s a lot more choice than before!

And depending on how much ‘extra yield’ such mining crits deliver these Consortium ships can very much be worth their higher price tag.

@Aisha_Katalen

what’s the point of using a small ship for mining links if you lack the cargo to store the ore

What do you mean, lack the cargo? The Outrider mining command destroyer has 20k ore hold.

@Aisha_Katalen

From an explorer pov the Odysseus is very cool but also very limited and “wrong”

It’s a jack of all trades ship for long scanning expeditions. It does scanning, hacking, combat sites and gas sites. Anything you can scan, really.

It also has a nice SMB, hold for gas and fleet hangar, a good contender to replace the Orca for solo wormhole nomadic gameplay.

[Aisha_Katalen]

@Gerard_Amatin

Newbies have been asking for Alpha progress paths for ages

Yup, and while I don’t really see a need for it (do we REALLY need to cater to alpha miners much) That’s fine.

@Gerard_Amatin

And depending on how much ‘extra yield’ such mining crits deliver these Consortium ships can very much be worth their higher price tag.

If they are cheap they’re worth it but if they end up being “faction” expensive they won’t be.

@Gerard_Amatin

The Outrider mining command destroyer has 20k ore hold.

That’s not really the point. The goal is the mining bonuses so if one char in your mining fleet uses command bonuses which would you rather have, that Outrider or a Porpoise?

@Gerard_Amatin

a good contender to replace the Orca for solo wormhole nomadic gameplay.

the number of people who do that is very very limited and even then the Orca is on an alt, so “solo”, and thus not at risk. With this ship you bring everything you have (and have gathered over time) into a site with all the risks involved and in order to be versatile it becomes a kitchen sink fit.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Aisha_Katalen

That’s not really the point. The goal is the mining bonuses so if one char in your mining fleet uses command bonuses which would you rather have, that Outrider or a Porpoise?

Depends on the situation.

The Porpoise and Outrider have the same base mining command burst strength.

The Porpoise can ‘siege’ and use the industrial core to lock themselves down to provide both compression and an slightly stronger command burst boost for 5% extra yield.

The Outrider on the other hand has more yield than the Porpoise, seems to be a lot more mobile and can MJFG an entire mining fleet 100km further to quickly reposition yourself or get out of danger.

I can see myself use one or the other depending on the situation.

@Aisha_Katalen

the number of people who do that is very very limited and even then the Orca is on an alt, so “solo”, and thus not at risk. With this ship you bring everything you have (and have gathered over time) into a site with all the risks involved and in order to be versatile it becomes a kitchen sink fit.

Isn’t that awesome?

People getting tempted to fly a big loot piñata into combat sites, gas sites and exploration sites?

I think that’s really good for the game.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

Ah, question the Pioneer and Pioneer Consortium Issue both have a 5% per level gas duration bonus as well as a 25% role duration bonus. This would actually place them, even at 5.33 effective gas scoops, at a much greater duration bonus, meaning they will mine gas nearly as effectively as ore.

So they would get a 59.5% decrease in gas duration at max skills instead of the ventures 27.6%.

Or did I miss something?

[Gerard_Amatin]

Comparing gas to ore like that isn’t really that useful as it’s apples to oranges. Instead I’d rather compare gas huffing rates to gas huffing rates of other ships, and ore mining rates to ore mining rates of other ships.

I already took the bonuses into account to get to the effective gas scoop number of the Pioneers.

25% duration reduction role bonus means 3 scoops cycle in 75% of the time, or an effective 3/0.75 = 4 scoops. Add another 25% (for level 5) reduction and you get a cycle time of 0.75 * 0.75 = 0.5625 times the original cycle time, or 4/0.5625 = 5.33 effective gas scoops.

Just like the Venture.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

Yes, I understood that portion laid out.

But not including the duration bonus seems disingenuous, as it represents a significant decrease in time to mine gas, reducing the gas cycle duration from 27.6% to 59.5%.

Adding a third column for gas duration bonus might help others in deciding what to get for which job. Just a thought, loved your presentation though, keep up the good work.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Ah, you mean that besides yield people may be interested in how short the cycle time is?

Sure, I can add that.

Edit: It may however wrongly suggest that the cycle time isn’t already taken into account for the effective amount of turrets, and people could wrongly think the shorter cycle time increases yield even further even though the gas huffing yield for the Ventures and Pioneers is all the exact same. Maybe adding it is a bad idea.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

Shorter cycle times DO increase yield over time a considerable amount. So its not an apples to oranges thing imo.

‘Yield over time’ versus straight ‘yield per cycle’ is an effective metric when it comes to dangerous mining conditions, which I can assume Catalyst is all about here. By highlighting the gas yield over time idea you show how you can get the same amount just in a shorter time frame. Ie less time on target. Which is a very important thing in Eve.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Just for clarity when I speak about effective turrets I’m speaking about ‘yield over time’ numbers, not ‘yield per cycle’.

Pioneers and Ventures all have the same yield over time. Pioneers get less yield per cycle but have faster cycles.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

@Gerard_Amatin

In your image here the Pioneer has a 5% per level reduction in duration as well as the 25% role bonus reduction. Whereas the Venture, here courtesy of the Eve wiki site, shows only a 5% per level duration bonus.

This 25% role bonus was never included in your calculations for the pioneer. As it’s a 27.6% (Venture) compared to 59.5% (Pioneer) difference under max skills.