It could be Null Lite, or WH 2.0. The only influence any NPC faction has is that one hub in any region they first claimed, which can then becomes disputed over time, perhaps by NPC faction and not player corps. Replaces the entire faction war system, maybe? It also could have limited trading in these regions where taxes and broker fees are governed by NPC faction dominance.
Heh. Too much conjecture. I need something to drink 
How about the WH to this HZS be a one way trip?
You find one, gather your pre-made expedition of pilots with Freighters, combat ships, miners and some supplies…
The only way back… Player Made Star Gates, like the XL kind, regional gates…
And yes I know only small gates are available right now, im just remided about SeaGulls vision of new space and using Large/XL player gates to launch from NE Star CLuster into new space outside of the cluster.
But you’ve already said that one BC or hauler collapses the wormhole, which means nothing but the smallest ships if you want to fly with friends. And if the resources are limited to things that frigates can successfully accomplish then what is the point when supercapital farming in nullsec pays much better? And if you do balance around frigates and maybe a cruiser being the biggest ships people will bring then what do you do when someone brings in a BC? Or hauls in the minerals/blueprints/etc to build a battleship that can now effortlessly farm all that cruiser/frigate content?
Almost nothing is new though save for a few objects and a new database. The wheel is not being reinvented but just copied and then a new rule-set placed on it…adding new space to the game should not be hard one would hope.
Even ignoring the technical questions like “is it even possible to have systems that do not have any kind of name or identifier without major changes to the EVE code” there’s still a ton of balancing work to be done. You’re talking about an entire new gameplay concept unlike anything else in EVE and that’s an incredibly complex system to design and balance. For example, ou yourself admit it when you say that the wormhole mass numbers would require careful balancing to prevent them from being exploited. And all of that design and balancing work cost development time.
Yes very much so. The key though with Herzog is to make a soft barrier between the old, NE and the new, Herzog. The reality is it’s the same game but with enough of the rule set changed to warrant a “new area” but not enough for a reset or new separate servers.
TY
I think this would work too where the “end game” would be to build large gates that jump (randomly) back into NE. But, it would remove the privateer hauler or ninja miners from peaking into Herzog and that would hurt more than help.
I don’t think that is correct. 64 regions in NE, but 400 systems in Herzog. So you only have access to 64 Herzog systems any given time from NE (64/400 = 16%). Therefore you have a 1.5625% chance of landing in the system you want 16% of the time. At any given time, you have a 1.5625% * 16% = 0.25% chance of landing in the system you want, subject to a statistical distribution. But on average, you should land in the system you want to land in every 400 NE to Herzog jumps.
I didn’t put down the exact calculations but you would be able to bring a transport carrying a station and some friends in Frigs. A system that would allow for this as you raise a great point but one that would prevent gaming it.
now effortlessly farm all that cruiser/frigate content?
Remember that people will not be as trigger happy in Herzog because of the nature of the region. What if the owner of the local station tells the BS pilot to stop being a dick or he’ll be locked-out of the station? What if the BS pilot doesn’t have the means to build a new ship; will he really want to piss off everyone in the system? Politics and relationships will REALLY matter in Herzog…
Very true but my main point of that is that the WH mechanics for letting/not letting ships through already exists and the wheel doesn’t need to be reinvented. The exact mass vs ship count number would be tricky to nail down (maybe) but at least the system to implement it is already there.
So if you can carry in a station (or a station worth of cargo) then how exactly do you prevent the original situation I mentioned, where established powers in normal space get to exploit their logistics advantages to bring in on-demand resupply while newbies are stuck with whatever they can get in the initial jump in?
What if the owner of the local station tells the BS pilot to stop being a dick or he’ll be locked-out of the station?
You’re assuming these are two different people (or two different corps), why is this? And why would the station owner tell the battleship pilot to stop “being a dick” by farming PvE content? Why does the station owner care if a bunch of random people get killed as long as the station isn’t threatened? What incentive do they have to play space police and try to protect the weaker players? Wouldn’t it be in the station owner’s interest to ally with the strongest player and give them free docking access as long as they don’t kill the station owner’s farming alt?
Politics and relationships will REALLY matter in Herzog…
Which, again, means that the current powers have a significant advantage because they’re coming in with established relationships. They don’t need to worry about relationships with a bunch of individual players in their system, they just group up and slaughter everyone. And once they’ve killed the competition anyone trying to get established in their system is at a hopeless disadvantage.
Very true but my main point of that is that the WH mechanics for letting/not letting ships through already exists and the wheel doesn’t need to be reinvented. The exact mass vs ship count number would be tricky to nail down (maybe) but at least the system to implement it is already there.
But you’re still talking about a major development time issue, and that’s on top of all of the other changes your new space requires: being able to cut off access to your wallet, hiding system identifiers, etc.
No system is perfect. If a mega corp wanted to allocate 64 pilots to check WHs after ever collapse then that’s the exploit. As Matar put it, “you have a 1.5625% chance of landing in the system you want 16% of the time”.
Becasue those random people are the ones that will help him defend against others one day. If you built a town in the wind west, you want all the townsfolk to get along so than one day when a real threat emerges they will all band together for the greater good. It’s in everyone (locally) interest.
And this is the whole point of a sandbox isn’t it? IMO, THIS is what EVE lacks now…players deciding things, not NPC or CCP. A station owner could say that rent is X ore (or whatever) a week and everyone must help defend against reds. No friendly fire or you lose your docking rights.
I highly doubt the mega corps will reduce their NE efforts to the degree needed to start colonizing systems in Herzog. The risk/reward just isn’t there. This is not designed as a region so rich in ores and PI that mega corps will flock there…quite the contrary actually.
Well, yes. I’m not saying this is easy or without issues/effort but that the wheel is not being reinvented. It’s exactly what CCP is doing now with the Trigs (cookie cutter) except with Herzog there are no new ships, weapon systems. few new objects, etc…
You’re still getting it wrong. You don’t check every wormhole from normal space, you put a scout alt in your chosen new-space system and when a wormhole spawns you trace it back to the normal-space system it connects to. And then, because you are a nullsec power with immense logistics abilities, you jump whatever cargo you need to the normal-space system and send it through to new-space. The point is that established powers will have the ability to get their cargo to whatever normal-space system they need to use that particular day while smaller groups will have to hope for the rare chance of a wormhole connecting to a nearby system and/or use a different new-space system every time they make a new-space adventure.
Becasue those random people are the ones that will help him defend against others one day. If you built a town in the wind west, you want all the townsfolk to get along so than one day when a real threat emerges they will all band together for the greater good. It’s in everyone (locally) interest.
No, you want to depopulate the entire wild west and claim exclusive ownership over it. Remember, your proposed mechanics make it effectively impossible for a real threat to happen once you have locked down a system of your choice.
And this is the whole point of a sandbox isn’t it? IMO, THIS is what EVE lacks now…players deciding things, not NPC or CCP. A station owner could say that rent is X ore (or whatever) a week and everyone must help defend against reds. No friendly fire or you lose your docking rights.
But this potential already exists in nullsec! And yet the players have collectively decided to do things a different way. Why do you think making new space would somehow change this behavior?
The risk/reward just isn’t there. This is not designed as a region so rich in ores and PI that mega corps will flock there…quite the contrary actually.
If it’s so poor in resources then what is the point of going there? You’re proposing a massive level of risk and inconvenience, so if the reward isn’t proportional to the risk nobody is going to be interested in it. They’ll just keep farming safe and effortless missions in highsec.
That’s one way to do it too but for sake of argument, let’s say the WH only lasts a few hours and then collapses. New ones pop in after server reset. There is only a 16% chance that one will even appear or put another way, 300K m3 can be moved in/out once every 6 or 7 days on average.
Yes. Established powers can and will do what they want. That is a truism of life. The rules limit but of course, cannot totally prevent it from happening.
I disagree…the whole point of gates within Herzog is to encourage threats (later on).
That’s a good point but I would say that Herzog is way more player driven rather than NPC driven than NS’s NS…The reason NS is the way it is points to the need of a new system…hence Herzog.
Never said that…there is more than enough for people to build but when it comes to the rarer basic resources those might be at a level that you’re not just shipping them back to NE because they are pretty important in Herzog.
Probably…but it actually might be safer too…so…
But if I control a system (or two), why would I want to build a gate and open myself up to threats?
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
A better new area of space idea:
IOW, the established powers will have whatever they want. 300km3 is plenty to cover ammo, replacement ships, etc.
Yes. Established powers can and will do what they want. That is a truism of life. The rules limit but of course, cannot totally prevent it from happening.
But your whole premise is that this new space will be a shelter for smaller groups, away from the established powers. And now you’re admitting that it fails to achieve this goal and the major powers will just annex anything of value and continue business as usual.
I disagree…the whole point of gates within Herzog is to encourage threats (later on).
But how do you get a gate into a locked-down system? Or are you saying that you can build one-way gates to any arbitrary target system and launch an invasion force?
That’s a good point but I would say that Herzog is way more player driven rather than NPC driven than NS’s NS…The reason NS is the way it is points to the need of a new system…hence Herzog.
Nothing about nullsec is NPC-driven. The NPCs are nothing more than asteroids that you mine with guns, they play zero role in nullsec politics or warfare.
Never said that…there is more than enough for people to build but when it comes to the rarer basic resources those might be at a level that you’re not just shipping them back to NE because they are pretty important in Herzog.
You can’t have it both ways. Either new-space has sufficient resource value for it to be a target for the major powers or it doesn’t. If the resource level is there then the major powers will annex it as yet another thing to exploit and drive out all competition, if it isn’t then the value will be too low and nobody will bother with it when highsec missions pay better without any of the risk or inconvenience.
Probably…but it actually might be safer too…so…
You can’t get any safer than absolutely zero risk or challenge, and that’s what highsec missions are.
Others might open-up gates to you you…you may not have a choice.
They’ll have a hard time getting ‘my side’ of the gate built in a system I control.
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
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