Way to ignore him accusing/implying me of being a pedophile twice, calling another poster retarded, and then unwittingly testifying he does not submit unique player commands/input to each of his alts.
You are barking up the wrong tree.
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Oh, lookie here - digitally illiterate spotted… don’t you know that if you hold q and swap between programs with mouse it will be as if you pressed q in each of them? It has been this way at least since ages…
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Wrong.
One input command, one action ingame.
Especially regarding more than one account.
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Well, then you got a beef with microsoft to pick up…
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Microsoft has nothing to do with this.
I misunderstood what Salvos meant by that, ooops.
So what he means is that Q is held down which is the approach key and he clicks the target icon in the targets overview which is obviously a custom overview. In the Kusion Video I counted 4 per second and noted the approach showing in each window, so he had the Q button held down.
The lag or the use of sensor boosters could result in the difference in terms of the reporting in having 8 at the same time as there was a two second delay between the next group showing in the logs I have and would explain that.
So we are back to the fact that this is entirely possible then. I really don’t know why people get so emotive about clarifying things.
Yes, you did misunderstand because you got confused by what what someone else said which was false afterwards.
Each individual command to each individual account must be submitted manually by the player, specific to that account.
Period.
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Holding down the Q key is fine from my point of view.
I don’t agree on this. The question wether or not people are using input automation is something that is absolutely the business of every other player. That in mind, it is totally correct that the players discussing it should not play judge, jury and executioner at the same time.
A scientific approach to what people claim to be and to not be possible seems to be of interest to people who want to get a basic idea how multi-character ganking works.
For instance, my findings so far suggest that this:
is quite possible for someone who uses a good setup and has higher than average accuracy and speed with their hand movements. After all, that’s 10 coordinated movements on a single hand in a single second. It’s hard, but it is doable. Taken that the average player already is only between 6-8 untargeted mouseclicks in a second, doing 5 targeted ones is prety good.
Now:
was referring to doing the same 8 times a second or 16 hand actions a second. Scientific studies show that this is not within the capabilities of people, at least not with cascading windows, because that requires mixing two repetetive ultra fast movements together. People can claim whatever they want, this is just not true.
However, this doesn’t even seem necessary, as activating 20 chars within 4-5 seconds should still work as a gank.
So all we know or trying to close in on is the question of how many manual commands a single person can do on a single hand within the timeframe of 1 s. With that approximation in mind, if we look at logs it doesn’t answer us the question of wether or not someone used input broadcasts. As you’ve pointed out there are other factors that come into play. CCP can see more, than we can. Nevertheless, the player-available logs do tell us some things: they give us a first idea about wether or not input broadcasting could have been used.
If I see miners doing the exact same thing at the exact same time, this also doesn’t give me any proof, but it tells me that this could be a bot or it could be done using input broadcasting. The same for any other activity.
It is my understanding that such a discussion as this one, can help in two ways:
First, it can calm down players who want to believe that gankers are cheating. A quick look at the logs and they might realize everything has been done in a reasonable timeframe.
Second, it gives people a rough idea when input broadcasting could have happened. Depending on the person, they might decide to then report it or not. And if this report is based on a good understanding of human capabilities, we’ll see less rage-reports.
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Holding down the Q key to submit individual commands to separate accounts for them to perform acts, is not ok.
I re-state, again, since you apparently didnt read or comprehend what I said earlier:
Each individual command to each individual account must be submitted manually by the player, specific to that account.
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No because he is manually clicking on each client and then Q is giving its command following the mouse click. It is a non-issue, sorry.
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3 is not 8 though, is it? Nevermind, later on you said that 8 is not possible.
Pressing Q consistently as a part of submitted that command to separate accounts, for separate commands, does not constitute submitting an individual command by a player to each account, for that action.
You need to press Q each time, separately, for each account, for each individual action. Period.
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No, because the logs that I have which I have detailed above have a gap between the next batch of two seconds. So it looks like 4.
/facepalm…
I knew you where slow, labile and impressionable.
But I never figured this badly.
No need to get emo on me. I make mistakes, I misunderstand things and the mechanics are complicated and not always accurate, I am only human after all…
can you explain how this works and what you mean by manually in this context?
The logs look pretty legit, especially if it was more than one player. Are those from the OP killmail?
4 activations per second are doable, no question. I was anyway just questioning numbers like 8-10 activations aka 16-20 hand actions per second.
No they are from the logs of an alliance mate.
Which is my view, the point that the gankers made in and around the insults is that lag and the use of sensor boosters could affect the logs which is a very valid point. So what looked like 8 is in fact 4 if you take that into account.
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5-6 actions per second is humanly possible (maybe even 7-8 if the timing is right), if they are all “just” within a second and not at the same exact time. Alt+Tab is a very strong tool.
22 would only take a few seconds if the setup is optimized and the guy is practiced with doing it + there is the server tick. So, unless Op can share timestamps so one can actually check the invertal between the firing…