It’s just that it has multiple counters which where already discussed multiple times.
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Enlighten me.
Edit: Without saying get an alt/friend/otherparty/log for the night to stop from being bumped 1v1. Also thoughts on EVERYTHING ELSE I wrote there or just that one part?
First, the simplest counter is to use any one of the other available hauling ships which are agile enough to not have to care in the first place.
A Freighter is a massive capital ship. It is very specialized and offers a gigantic hold compared to all the other options available and as a drawback it is slow not very agile which is what makes it vulnerable to bumps. The bumping IS the counter to a fat slow ship with a gigantic cargohold and massive EHP buffer.
No one ever said that it should be possible to pilot such a gigantic ship without escort. However many successfully do but that comes with additional risks.
- Chose a ship that fits what you want to transport. Just going for the Freighter because it is big and has massive EHP and can be AFK APd around is just lazy. There are other options for a reason.
- Scout your way for trouble. The best defense is to never get into a dangerous situation in the first place, so scout your route. You can dock and scout with a shuttle some systems ahead with the same char before moving if you don’t want an alt or have a friend which can help. The problematic systems are well known, you don’t have to do this the whole route.
- Have an alt or friend web you into warp. This will extremely reduce align time. Not only will it be almost impossible to bump you but you will also reach your destination a lot faster.
- Have warp-off bookmarks in all directions near the gates that are problematic. This takes some effort to create but if you haul on a regular basis this may save your ass.
- If trouble hits non the less, have your friends provide you warpouts with interceptors, buffs with fleet boosts, counter bumps to get the freighter aligned to a save warpout.
- Gank the bumper. Bumping Machs don’t have that high EHP and can be dispatched by a relatively small suicide ganking fleet. It is incredibly easier for anyone to gank the bumper than to gank a Freighter which has more than an order of magnitude more EHP.
What I will never get is people that complain about hour long bumps. There is always something you can do and time is actually on your side. So the longer you get bumped the more time you have to organize your escape, rally your support etc. Why would you just give up and do nothing and complain about the game instead of trying to get out of the situation you yourself created by being lazy.
So what will a 3min timer do?
It will reduce the time window for saving a Freighter. No longer will ag be able to struggle for hours to rally a small rescue fleet (actually you better just count on your friends who have no experience in this at all and will probably still be more effective). The only interaction that will still happen with that timer will be precise operations which end in a dead Freighter.
It is quite ironic that ag sometimes complains about how fast ganks are and that there is no possibility to interact as CONCORD just moves in and steals the show, yet when there is a mechanic in place that would allow to enable their gameplay they create threads full about tears to get them removed.
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Have you ever bumped? It isn’t “no-attention” or “minimal attention”. Yes, I’m sure the best at it can multi-task somewhat after all their practice, but it still requires the bumper to interact with their game client every 5-10s, indefinitely and without break, and with no mistakes, to keep the bump-tackle going.
Honestly, not many people have the attention to do this regularly even for tens of minutes, let alone hours, which is why this whole hysteria about bumping is quite silly. There are no people “grief-bumping” for hours for no reason. They will bump only until a gank fleet can arrive, or they deem there is no chance of extracting a ransom or the target accepting a duel. The only reason people will put up with that tedium is for the potential payday at the end, and if you implemented some timer, that strong motivation would still be there and just result in the gankers chain suiciding disposable ships fit with warp scramblers into any freighter they thought they could gank for a large profit.
There is really no need to spend any dev time on this non-problem - bumping is an intended emergent weakness of large ships and freighter ganking is a very niche activity with plenty of existing counters to keep your hauler safe, not to mention that freighters don’t need to be made any safer (in fact, I imagine such a buff to freighter safety would be paired with a nerf to their EHP or something as CCP Fozzie says they like to do). And given it has been almost two-and-a-half years since CCP floated the idea, it seems they have come to the same conclusion.
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Nope. You’re generalising too much and talking about anti-gankers as if they (we) were all like that, and also interpreting two things that have a common underlying cause as if one was a consequence of the other.
These posts aren’t a consequence or motivated by any AG failures. Actually most of them are from players that don’t even try to fight gankers in game at all.
The underlying problem in all these cases is the inability to understand this is a game, dissociate it from RL, and learn what it’s about and how to play it.
These players just cannot understand the concept of no safety anywhere and that suicide ganking is just the means by which that is accomplished in high sec.
They think the game is broken because it allows other players to destroy their ships in what they think should be safe space, that the gankers can do what they do because they “abuse” the game mechanics. THAT is the reason they post all their nonsense here, not because they fail at trying to stop the gankers in game themselves.
That they also fail at stopping the gankers in game in the few cases they try is just another consequence of their inability to understand the game…
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Can we all stop assuming that someone arguing against or for a point means they’re actively doing what they are arguing for? It’s starting to get real immature. I don’t fly freighters and have never been locked in bumps. The only experience I have with it is bumping a gal fw kronos in cal empire for hours in a tengu i just happened to be flying before he paid me to leave. I assume a freighter would be far easier. I think that’s broken and I shouldn’t have been able to do that without endangering myself.
This whole “you guys just want your stuff (ganking/freighting/etc) be easier” thing is just going nowhere and I see it in like every thread. Lots of people posting literally have no part in either side of this they are just saying what they think is fair or unfair. In my opinion if you’re going to disrupt someone’s warp you should be vulnerable just like a warp disruptor.
Also this n+1 counter you mentioned shouldn’t be required when no one is actively flagged. Whether it’s bumping the bumper or suiciding on him etc it’s high sec if you’re going to grief weapons should work on you or you shouldn’t be allowed to keep them there indefinitely. A bumping machariel can easily exceed the ten tornado suicide marker and the fact that you need ten pilots to come there and sacrifice their ships so you might be able to warp is ridiculous.
Maybe sure 3 minutes is too short but there should be some sort of time limit. What’s stopping me from bumping some noob who just got his harbinger with no agility skills in my cynabal until he quits? The fact that you are able to do this is wrong.
Based on what I have read about CODE in general is that they have a base of hate towards:
- AFK pilots
- Miners who do not purchase their permits.
- Anyone that does not view them as being the Sov owners of High Sec.
CODE. and all of its hate that it posts about any being against them does in fact violate Section 3 of the EULA.
- You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies
ethnic group : a community or population made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.
I have also read many posts from CODE gankers who say that freighter pilots hauling around a lot of loot deserve to be ganked. That is a form of hate and targeting a certain ethnic group. The cultural group being freighter pilots who are part of a common cultural background of being freighter pilots in general along with being freighter pilots who haul around a lot of loot.
- You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
Excessive latency would also include undocking gank ships near a station that Concord then arrives en mass to destroy that leaves Concord in the system for an undetermined time that could potentially cause excessive lag due to the number of Concord ships present. The presence of even more Concord that can create excessive lag is generated when more than one ganker fleet is operating in a system or adjacent system that continues to pull an excessive amount of Concord during ganks that are taking place one right after another.
I would also like to mention that the use of Bump Tackling should be considered Bump Griefing as well in so much that if Bump Tackle a freighter that keeps it from warping, how is the freighter pilot able to escape the grief itself.
From what I have heard is that you are not allowed to follow a ship or player into the next system to continue the griefing if the player is able to escape. How is the player supposed to escape the griefing if they have been Bump Tackled or warp scrambled for that matter?
If a player has left the system that they were griefed in and the griefing tactics start over again then the griefer has in fact committed a form of harassment because the grief came looking for them to engage in the act of griefing that the pilot was able to escape from.
GM Karidor - CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another player’s ship as an exploit. However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.
How can a freighter pilot make an effort to move to another location when the freighter or other ship is Bump Tackled thus keeping the player from being able to move to another location.
Bump Tackling is a persistent targeting of the player by following the freighter after each time the bump has taken place to perform another bump tackle.
Bump Tackling is in fact an aggressive act because Bump Tackling is in fact a passive form of Warp Scrambling that intentionally keeps the targeted ship from entering warp without drawing a criminal flag timer that would otherwise cause CONCORD to arrive and issue the punishment.
GM Karidor - You are mistaken. If you are reported and we find you actively following around a target without a war to continue bumping a specific player, it will still (at some point) considered harassment, even if you divert your ‘attention’ a little while doing so. If you have a bone to pick with someone, declare a war and take the risk that your target may actually taste blood and fight back (or finds allies for that part).
https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/2535377/
Therefore the 3 Minute Warp Timer is a crucial step that CCP must take to ensure that accounts are not banned as well as ensuring that harassment of players is not encouraged.
id agree if i thought it would effect anything, but tbh if they dont actually have anything on grid in 3 minutes theyre incredibly poorly set up.
“Simply going to next system is not considered making an effort in relocating”. You are not going to convince anyone that dong ONE jump is any effort at all. As a rule of thumb - anyone who operates in given area actually operates in given systems + 5-8 jumps. Move by 15 jumps… then is different topic.
Easier said than done. AFAIK there is no way to war dec npc corps.
You failed to take into account this part:
“If you are reported and we find you actively following around a target without a war to continue bumping a specific player, it will still (at some point) considered harassment”
For that rule to come into play, you would have to bump a specific player whenever you see them. Not just bump all freighters or certain freighters. Only the one player, no matter what ship they fly.
OK. Now if instead of that strawman you would actually address some of the points Pedro and I have raised I would even believe you that you are interested in a honest discussion and not just want to push an agenda.
We actually try to help them correct their unhealthy lifestyle. It’s even written in the Code.
But wait, thinking about it there is another group who even defines themselves by hating another group of players. It is even In their name: anti-ganking
They have whole in-game channels devoted to spread the hate and to report gankers so they can follow them around in an attempt to harass and make them quit the game.
They will also post thread after thread on the forums full of hate and lies to try to rally more people against this minority and to get them banned or the game mechanics they use removed from the game by CCP. All out of pure hate.
Lucky for us gankers they are not really an issue because they are really bad at EVE so they are mainly a clown show.
But think about it, no wonder are they so toxic, they are defined by hate.
On a serious note: @DrysonBennington your posts get extremer and saltier by the day and maybe you should calm down a bit or you will really become what you accuse us of.
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Erm, what? While hate (and ignorance) is certainly what motivates many anti-gankers, that’s by no means implied by the name. I enjoy being an anti-ganker myself and you know it’s not because of hate, and I’m not alone in that regard either.
I have to admit I’m often considered a spy there for not hating you 
, but still hate is not implied by the “anti-” part of the name.
LOL, what?
It sort of does. Maybe hate is too strong, but it does have a clear implication they are against another player group - the whole identy of the group is to oppose another player activity as that is the name. In my opinion, this community should rebrand as ‘Highsec Militia’ or something more neutral if it doesn’t want to be seen as a group solely motiavated to damage another group even if that appears to be the sole purpose of the group - no wonder people view anti-gankers as spiteful haters.
It is fine, being an “anti-pirate” has been a thing since the early days of Eve and has a proud tradition, but is sort of a failure of imagination to brand yourself as only that. You can be a player group that opposes piracy, like CVA, rather than a group of players whose identity is only to “hate on” a group of other players who are just playing the game. Letting yourself be defined by another group isn’t a good strategy and opens yourself up to accusations of hate and spite being the glue the unites you - which from the outside appears to be in large part the case.
But to be fair this isn’t your mess and the game is better off with some player vigilante group, even if it is ‘anti-ganking’. It just feels that that the animosity might be less if the conflict wasn’t explicitly diametrically opposed to each other. I don’t know, maybe it can’t be any other way, but I wish there was a clearer ‘white-knight’ community that had some other identity to speak of.
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#Dryson4CSM
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That’s correct, yes, and nothing wrong about that IMO.
But such a group does exist too, and High Sec Militia is precisely how it’s called even. They’re part of the AG community. Not sure what you mean…
Because many of them ARE spiteful haters?
I’m just pointing out that this is not implied by the name and that you cannot generalise so much and talk about them (us) as if they (we) were all like that…
Exactly my point. There should be no difference in how you view one group or the other based solely on the name used to describe what they do.
Part of the problem here is that the same term is used to describe two very different groups of players:
-
Those that think suicide ganking is a broken game mechanic that should be removed from the game or at the very least nerfed.
-
Those that understand the game and think there is nothing wrong with suicide ganking being part of it, but that happen to enjoy hunting and harassing the gankers for fun and roleplay reasons.
Most players in the first group don’t do anything to actually fight the gankers in game, and in the few cases they do they often (not sure if always) fail horribly at it precisely because they don’t understand the game nor the “problem” they’re trying to “fix”. These are the haters and whiners and they deserve all your criticism, but they’re not the only type of anti-gankers out there…
EDIT: The two very distinct types of anti-gankers I depicted is arguably an oversimplification, as there are anti-gankers that fall somewhere in between, e.g. some accept suicide ganking is part of the game, but still hate or at least despise the players that engage in ganking activities.
See, you don’t understand EVE at all.
That is exactly what players are supposed to do.
Punishment/Revenge for slights real and perceived 
This is why most of your posts are so wrong!