3d Chatrooms

Hello,

I have been running a pub-themed small chat channel for about 5 years now and I want to suggest a feature that could enhance the social experience of the game and also create revenue.

Right now we have simple chatrooms that players can enter. And that is fine and works pretty well.

The Suggested Feature
What I want is the ability for chatrooms to offer a 3d experience, where the player can use the 3d avatar to move around on foot and communicate via chat bubbles in a limited 3d space.
The players avatar would have several gestures and could move around and interact in a useful way with the environment (e,g, sitting down on a chair).
The 3d experience could be a plex-paid feature (e.g. 10k plex by the owner of the channel) to unlock and would allow a large range of furniture and other items needed to decorate it to.
As I want to have a pub-themed room, I would need a bar the the appropriate furniture and signs and stuff.
These new plex-paid items could be traded similar to clothes.
Clothes would get a better use as players could now show off their clothing items in these 3d chatrooms.

Personally I’d be willing to spend silly amounts of plex on that.

3 Likes

Long before I started playing here, they had it where your character had their own quarters on station. They call this WIS ( walk in station ) many people have suggested they bring it back and expand on it. I know of at least one of my friends here who spends her retirement check on Black Desert housing with furniture sets. That money is going to another game and not helping CCP.

I see CCP trying to remain all militaristic and no frivolity. Because of it, 3D avatars are as useless as a pimple on my butt. We can make some interesting looks but why would I pay to change the appearance of something so unused? Meanwhile they are trying hard to push the idea of selling custom paint jobs on ships. I think they assume people here are as gullible as the users on CS:GO.

I played Star Trek for a few years, they have 3D chat, discos, bars, and casinos on their stations. Problem is not enough people to use them. The game has low population and would be great for 3D chatting. The space sim is far too simplistic and so the game suffers loss. This one the space simulation rocks, but then 3D is completely wasted here even in space battles. Everything you do can be accomplished on 2D menus and hotkeys. The 3D becomes nothing more than a screen saver backdrop.

This is what they had but I was not here to experience it. This is 13 years old.

1 Like

Thanks for the video. I heard of it, but i didn’t know they had already gone so far with that.

What I propuse is similiar, though I am not asking for the whole station to be walkable and interactable. I would already be perfectly fine with a capsulated room or rooms that people can enter if they want to.

I would also not want it to be tied to a specific stations that people then have to be docked at.
It would be cool if they could just access the chatroom in 3d from anywhere.

Being a programmer myself, all I can think is, what a waste. They paid to install it, then they paid again to uninstall it. Very pointless programming, then CCP loses money coming and going. Now assuming they want to reinstall that is more more money again flushed down the toilet. Who knows, maybe if the rumors are true, the new owners will insist on it being reinstalled?

:+1:

1 Like

A little history for context. WiS/CQ was introduced to the game as sort of a ā€œtech previewā€ rather than a full-blown feature. It was never a multiuser avatar environment. Each character could leave their pod, walk around a single room (alone), sit on a couch, look in a mirror, watch TV, and stand on their balcony admiring their ship. This was supposed to be the first of many feature expansions that would eventually lead to walking around in stations, interacting with other players, going to bars, gambling in casinos, etc.

However, a number of things derailed the project:

  1. The tech behind CQ was borrowed from development on an MMO for the World of Darkness RPG universe. When the investment for that game fell through, and the MMO was canceled, CCP couldn’t fund further development on their own.
  2. The WiS/CQ feature was integral to CCP’s microtransaction plans, and when an infamous internal memo about said plans got leaked, it turned a significant segment of the playerbase against CCP and peripherally, WiS/CQ. This was known as the Summer of Rage.
  3. CQ lingered for some time after, but the tech relied on a licensed middleware that was no longer supported. This middleware was also 32-bit only, which presented a problem at a time that CCP was trying to migrate EVE to a 64-bit client.
  4. In order for CQ to persist in a 64-bit EVE, it would have to be redeveloped from the ground up, and that effort was determined to be more work than CCP was willing to devote to a feature that most players weren’t using. (It would also require more dev time than the playerbase would tolerate being taken away from core game improvement).
  5. CQ was ultimately scrapped and EVE eventually migrated to a full 64-bit client.

So, restoring the WiS/CQ functionality would require more than just re-introducing old code. The whole subsystem would have to be redeveloped from scratch. Also, the original CQ was a single-character environment. Implementing shared spaces would be even more development work. Given the present size of the EVE dev team, this would probably mean dedicating all available resources to such a feature for a period of 12 to 18 months, during which no other work would be done improving the core game.

All to facilitate an aesthetic feature that most players wouldn’t seen enough value in for the game to stagnate 12 to 18 months.

TL;DR: Not likely to happen.

2 Likes

Thank you for all the details.

I think it is ok if they not try to bring Walking in Stations or the Captain’s Quarters back, but make a new feature. Similar to the Captain’s quarter’s I guess but multiplayer.

About development resources and how to spend them… that’s for them to decide,
I’m just a station trader saying what feature I would spend Plex on.

Otherwise I have no further way to consume Plex (that makes sense to my playstyle), apart from occasionally spending some to Plex for Omega and Boosters… but I have done that for the next 2 years.
So… I have no further useful (to me) way to consume Plex in Eve Online for the next 2 years and basically will create no revenue.

I am not disrespecting you idea or desire for this feature. It might be a great feature, if the world was perfect. However the world is far from perfect.

I know we all think of Eve as an adult game, but we know for a fact their are 12 year-old and maybe younger in this crowd. There are for sure some mentally younger than 12 from what I read in chat. China has an age of consent at 14 and Japan set that bar lower to 13. Many games are Asian based, but Eve Online is Icelandic and the majority of the population adhere to Lutheran Christian principles. I would assume it is the unwritten rule of CCP not to allow children to be cybered in a 3D chat room. While I am sure there are a lot of good people in this game, I could see this game quickly degrade into Second Life style chat rooms. Not everyone who plays here has the best intentions.

Thanks for your thoughts on this Srima.

The problem you are describing is present already with or without a 3d environment.
I wouldn’t assume or ask for ā€˜bullying’ animations and that would be in the developers control to add or not to add that :p.

In my pub-channel it’s my responsibility to keep it reasonably save for everyone at every age, but it is also in my power to remove people who misbehave, and no one is forced to stay in the chat if they don’t feel comfortable in it.

But as I said, these problems already exist and a 3d environment would not change that. I mean… isn’t that a problem of all multiplayer environments?

I understand. But if they have to redevelop the engine from scratch, you’re still talking about dedicating 12 to 18 months of dev time, during which little to nothing else will be done in terms of developing core gameplay. And again, to implement a purely aesthetic add-on to the existing chat system. In terms of gameplay loops, your idea suffers the same problem that detractors had with the original WiS/CQ.

That’s what led to the downfall of CQ in the first place. It was a purely aesthetic feature with no gameplay element, and many players at the time saw it as a waste of development resources that could have been used to improve core game features.

Further, it seems like such a feature as you propose would be less optimal to use than the current chat system. For one, it only makes sense to have avatar chat rooms available when the character is docked, and only within the docked station. Otherwise, how would they be in a physical room if they are in a capsule, inside a ship, flying through space? How would they be in a room 24 jumps away in a different region? In that case, chat would go from being globally accessible to locality based. My guess is most players would try it once or twice, the novelty would wear off, and they would forget all about it (which is exactly what happened with CQ).

Secondly, it seems like multiuser avatar chat rooms would require significantly more server resources than the present XMPP-based chat system (because you have to manage avatar state, movement, etc.). What kind of additional server resources would be required to support avatar chat rooms in e.g., Jita 4-4? IDK, but more than we have today so there’s capital investment required to support the new system. (Now it’s not just software, it’s hardware, too.)

Compared with the original CQ, I would guess multiuser avatar chat spaces would be a 5-10x lift to implement. I would also guess that less than 10% of the playerbase would regularly use the feature.

And at present, CCP has decided to spend those limited resources primarily on Vanguard and Frontier, only allocating whatever is left to EVE. In fact, this is probably the least ideal time since 2011 to ask for a big lift project like what you’re proposing.

That said, if you have any hope, I think it might be with Vanguard. In a couple years, if Vanguard is successful (tbh, unlikely), then CCP may be able to leverage the tech they develop for the FPS to implement some sort of avatar-based gameplay in EVE. Again though, there will need to be more to that than pure aesthetics, otherwise a significant percentage of players will reject it as a waste.

1 Like

About the chatroom being global or local:
I would want the 3d part of the chatroom be globally accessible like the normal text-chat is as well.
Yes, it is strange to have access to a 3d chatroom an be in space at the same time. But we are all just clones anyway and having the 3d chatrooms locally only would make them inferior to the normal chat.

About wasted dev time:
I don’t really care about it being hard to implement… that’s not my job.
I just got nothing else to spend Plex on, and this is what I want.
They spend resources on other games which I have no interest in, so… one could argue they should put up more resources for Eve instead, but that is a different discussion.

As I player I am entitled to tell you guys what I want… and that’s what I am doing here. :wink:
You of course can disagree, nothing wrong with that.

That kind of goes against the core design of EVE which is that location matters.

After all, if I can meet someone face to face in the same room, why can I not trade my items with them? It’s very counterintuitive to allow such a thing between players who are in fact not in the same location.

At best these ā€˜3D talks across the galaxy’ would suit EVE if you could remotely talk to someone from within your Captain’s Quarters via some Star-Wars-like 3D hologram if they aren’t able to come to your station in person, and reserve the face-to-face talks for players who are in the same station.

Besides trying it for the novelty I would use neither, as a chat window while in space is much more convenient than docking up and opening a 3D renderer of my character just to chat.

The hologram idea is quite good.
Because you are right, the location based design of Eve is important, but for a chat like that to work it should be global.
If we say it is all holographic (like Star Trek Holodeck) we have no problem with that. Great Idea :slight_smile:

I understand that it would be of limited use for many players. But I think there are people who at the end of a long day sit down and enjoy to spend some time in their favorite chat channel and hang out with their space-friends. And station trader would spend some more time in it, if they like it :smiley:

go outside and do something other than station trading… you are not who ccp is targeting then with PLEX..

We all live in a world of limitations and finite resources, and we all have to temper our wants and expectations to conform with reality.

Yes, but you’re not entitled to receive it.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m only trying to explain why you aren’t going to receive what you’re asking for. In a world of infinite resources, I would be like, ā€œAvatar chatrooms? Yeah, sure. Why not? It’s not my bag, but maybe some folks would like it.ā€ But we don’t live in that world.

Haha yeah, but I can keep displaying that there is an demand for it (at least from me) :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s nice that you take the time to explain why what I want is unlikely to happen. And I understand your reasoning that and also why it is unlikely. I still want it though, so what else can I do than say that I want it?

1 person demand isnt enough to rouse attention from ccp

I’ve definitely seen this demand from more than 1 person.

Still I don’t think it’s realistic.

2 Likes

Can we create a client, read the local chat log file and recreate the chat in a 3d environment which is standalone from the client? The standalone client would need to handle the network for 3d environment and integrate the chat into that. That would be completely disconnected from Eve apart from the chatlog.

In that case though one would still have to write the messages in the eve client.. a way to sync that up through ESI would be cool, but I don’t think they allow for messages to be posted in chat through ESI to avoid bots using that.

The person running the chatroom would have to be the server for the 3d-chatroom and handle the traffic, and the ones who enter the chatroom, could then find an code in the MOTD which let’s you connect in the standalone client for the 3d-chatroom and chat would be synced by each one’s own local chatlogs.

Would that be a realistic alternative?
Are there already preset environments that offer easy network solutions maybe?

How hard would that be… how much would that cost?

Why do you want this? I see no need for this

Because a big portion of my gameplay is to talk to other players, chat about the game and the market and joke around with each other.

As mentioned I run a chat channel, and I run it as a pub or bar with a slight focus on trade… so there are multiple station trader’s in one spot.

We spend a lot of time in the chat room, and it would be a much more immersive experience if we could interact inside that space a little more than just with chat text.

I know it is a niche, in a niche game which consists of thousands of niches. But… I want it :wink: