64-bit Mac Client, Wine, and YOU

(CCP Antiquarian) #1

So, you may have read the official devblog regarding the 64-bit client.

We’ve been plugging ahead with the work to get the client operational on Mac as well as PC, but have run into a few forks in the road regarding ccp-master wine.

At present, the proposal is to drop ccp-master and let upstream Wine be the default for all users.

One bit of key (no pun intended) functionality dropped in that decision would be the 8 key bindings listed below:

  • Left option key maps to left Alt key (which otherwise does nothing, like the right option key)
  • Command click is treated as a right button click
  • Command-A does Select-all
  • Command-C does Copy
  • Command-V does Paste
  • Command-X does Cut
  • Command-H hides the game window
  • Command-W behaves like Control-W (to close windows in EVE)

While there are benefits to maintenance and development that make using latest wine an attractive option to consider, we have some obvious concerns about removing existing functionality for players. Chiefly, users with Apple’s Magic Mouse would be more or less required to activate Secondary Click or use another peripheral with an RMB.

No one has yet made the call (we need to get the 64-bit client functional first) and we are also looking at the possibility of continuing ccp-master if necessary.

Which makes as soon as possible the best time for existing Mac users to weigh in. Would the loss of the above key bindings be detrimental to your continued enjoyment of EVE Online? Do you have other concerns regarding the deprecation of ccp-master wine? Are you in fact already using a different wine version for one reason or another?

Please let us know in the comments here.

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64-Bit Instructions for Singularity (Mac Users - must read!)
64-Bit Client Mass test on Duality on Tuesday, March 5th
(Leah Crowleymass) #2

Thanks for giving us an update and letting us know about these issues.

For me, these are certainly inconveniences, but not deal-breakers (like failing to implement 64-bit at all and having the game nuked by the next macOS update :slight_smile: )

Personally, I’m using a Logitech gaming mouse, so I can get around some of the clicking issues. For my WINE version, I’m using all of the defaults in the launcher and client at the moment.

I guess my only concern at the moment is how will testing and distribution of WINE be handled to ensure stability? Any changes to how you are doing it now?

I see what you did there :slight_smile:

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(CCP Antiquarian) #3

That one, pun intended. The robot is not subtle.

We’ll be having more discussions about stability and testing, but the workload is being weighed as part of this decision.

Thanks for adding a voice, and please invite any other Mac users you know to comment here.

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(Leah Crowleymass) #4

Will do- and on behalf of the Mac community, let me heartily and sincerely thank you for not leaving us behind!

(Rixx Javix) #5

You made me log in on my phone!

I’ve always reserved those keybinds for the OS since I started playing over ten years ago, so those being that way going forward won’t change anything for me. I can’t use the Magic Mouse anyway, it’s just not great for gaming or for doing creative work.

I think most Mac users just want the best experience we can get playing Eve. Frankly Ill put up with a lot just to keep Eve rolling on my iMac and crushing the graphics on my Retina display. It’d be awesome if we could do more to take advantage of the 5k Retina display tbh.

I always get worried whenever big changes are announced and we talked briefly about this in Vegas or Reyk, don’t remember exactly. But this 64bit change is exciting if we can maximize the Mac experience as well.

That’s my two cents worth. I started playing Eve the same day it was ported to Mac. And I haven’t stopped.

Rixx

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(Kenneth Feld) #6

I kind of cuss a bit on the inside when I have to use CTRL instead of CMD for basic functions, I could get over that i suppose and just put more money in the swear jar

The magic mouse though - I would hate to give it up. I use it traveling cause no wires and it works. No other BT mouse will connect, get throw in my bag and connect seamlessly a month later etc. Plus scrolling up/down and side to side on the mouse is awesome. Losing r-click would be brutal

(Corwin Dnari) #7

Losing those key bindings would be annoying, but I don’t think it would cause me to quit the game. Maybe.

(Glade Radner) #8

Want to make sure I’m understanding this change. Are we losing the ability to map the Command key completely?

I use CMD + c (v, x, h, a, b, etc…) when I’m playing all the time, so getting rid of that functionality would be a pain, but not a dealbreaker. I would have to retrain my brain to use the CTRL modifier instead. So it would certainly take some getting used to and be annoying as hell (and yes, detrimental to the short-term enjoyment of the game) after the change is implemented.

I don’t use a magic mouse for gaming (and have right-click enabled anyway, so that’s not an issue).

I also want to mirror what others have said and sincerely thank you guys for asking for our input and continuing the work on the Mac client so we can be our amongst the stars for the foreseeable future. :grinning:

(Attidack) #9

Im game, I would just love to be able to see eve the way other players do. Please dont forget this the mac client! More mac users would play if it was stable… all of us at work have to use apple products because of the programs we need to utilize for a/v. On more then one occasion i have had a friend start playing and stop due to stablility on the mac os… if we could fix this we would see more mac users. to look at the metric of only 5.5% of players is mac, well we are the 5.5% of players that put up with broken way of playing for YEARS! a native mac client with real fps would increase the communities marketability. The only reason we dont have more mac players is literally because we dont have a native mac client.

(Mynxee) #10

Loss of those bindings or having to use a different mouse wouldn’t bother me. Fwiw, the EVE client runs quite reliably on my 2013 27” iMac even on HQ graphics.

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(CCP Antiquarian) #11

You wouldn’t expressly lose the Magic Mouse, but you likely would want to activate Secondary Click in the settings so that the right side functioned like a right mouse button (As it turns out, many Mac user have already enabled this functionality).

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(CCP Antiquarian) #12

Thanks, Rixx.

I suspect a lot of Mac “powerusers” are in a similar boat.

We’ll do what we can to keep you guys cruising along.

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(CCP Antiquarian) #13

Thanks everyone for the replies and comments.

We’re about to have the implementation of this in a testable state, so I may soon be (potentially able to begin planning to think about the consideration of a slight possibility of maybe) providing some answers on resulting functionality and what exactly happens when we remove ccp-master from the equation.

Until then, please continue to comment and of course keep flying.

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(Xaviar Onassis) #14

If we lose the Left-Option-as-Alt binding, is it possible to bind Option-whatever in shortcuts, or do we lose all Alt-based shortcuts in the process?

Or does Command also map to Alt? I honestly don’t know!

(Vincent Athena) #15

I’m confused, walk me through this.
Command-A will not be “select all”. What will command-A be?
What will “select all” be? Others have suggested control-A, but is that true?
What happens when I try and change a shortcut to something with the command key?
If the command key does nothing, then can I freely use it as the talk key on Discord?

Also, I don’t get the mouse issue. There is something else the right side of the mouse can be used for other than secondary click?

What does this mean: “Left option key maps to left Alt key” as my keyboard has one key that is labeled both “alt” and “option”. Doesn’t that mean they are the same key already? What does it mean to map a key to itself?

However, I already seem to use the control key alot in Eve for things I would expect to use command on typical Mac apps, so this seems to be a minor change.

(CCP Antiquarian) #16

Hey @Xaviar_Onassis and @Vincent_Athena, here’s the best walk through I can offer. Will clarify if anything isn’t immediately grokkable, though. Just ask:

  1. You can see what the mappings would be right now by choosing “winehq-master” as the dev branch and “Latest” as the wine version in the Preferences menu of the EVE Launcher (accessed through the menu bar, not the Launcher settings cog).

  2. We can’t 100% claim that winehq-master will always have the same keybindings (we don’t maintain winehq-master) it has at present, but the current set up is as follows (mostly, ctrl replacing cmd):

  • Select All: ctrl-a
  • Copy: ctrl-c
  • Paste: ctrl-v
  • Cut: ctrl-x
  • Hide game window: None
  • Close windows in EVE: ctrl-w

Any conflicting shortcuts you have set to those binds would have to be reset.

  1. With regard to the mouse, for users who do not have secondary click enabled, there is no difference between the right and left mouse clicks on the Magic Mouse. Without the bespoke “command-click = right click” keybind, “command-click” defaults to “Look At” and there is then no way for someone with only one mouse button to access the contextual (right click) menu. So single button mouse users in the new paradigm will be required to have Secondary Click enabled in the Mouse settings of their Macs.

  2. The Left option key (on official Apple keyboards) on winehq-master is not recognized. You could not use it in the EVE shortcut menu. The labels on the keys of your specific keyboard may be different, and the drivers unique to that hardware, so you will have to see if the keystroke is recognized using winehq-master. (In general, Wine recognizes cmd as the alt key. But there are issues where the system uses cmd for other functions resulting in input conflicts.)

  3. I am not 100% familiar with Discord’s implementation on Mac, so that would be a question for the people who maintain that bit of code.

64-Bit Client Mass test on Duality on Tuesday, March 5th
(Den enjen) #17

I won’t mind also if these key commands would drop.
It’s just getting it into my head whats the harder part.

(Graham March) #18

bindings in winehq seems much more native for mac users, but bindings are the last part of interest, where we can get a really stable game and high quality picture in full resolution

(Imoto Akachi) #19

For me losing those keybindings will be quite painful.
Is it possible to treat cmd as ctrl, and ctrl as windows key? That will be perfect.

(Leto Atal) #20

Losing keybindings is a minor inconvenience in comparison to not being able to play EVE at all. These days I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have secondary click enabled on their mouse so that’s not really a problem anyway. EVE is not a particularly accessible game for those with physical impairments anyway.

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