A Gift to the Empire, and The Nature of the War

This is the kind of exchange that this place needs more of. I do not contest your assessment over the current status of minmil structures. However, I think that even you realize that the current trajectory of the minmatar militia is bleak. You will remember that an attempt was made to foster coordination between the militias to repel a far more insidious mutual foe. You may also remember that these attempts floundered as a consequence of UNITY’s inability to make its pilots adhere to its own agreements. I have the logs between myself and your head diplomat at the time, Xaar, which confirm this, if you’re interested. The consequence of this was that both of our structures burned, so I reject the notion that CTRLV somehow benefited from UK’s failure in organization in this regard.

Whether minmil rebounds and retakes the warzone, I think you are probably correct. We have seen these systems change hands time and time again. However, whether UNITY will ever play an pivotal role in deciding the balance of power in the region is a query with a similarly predictable response…

This is the key to understanding the CEWPA war and the current status quo of the CONCORD agreement. The pendulum must swing or the agreement breaks. If it swings against Amarr for too long, then the agreement stops draining the Republic’s ability to raise secret fleets. If it swings against the Tribes, it makes them liable to commit catastrophic acts out of desperation. Calling it a pendulum is not an insult, in many cases, but instead it is a recognition of the purpose of the conflict.

Worrying about this is above our paygrade in the Militia. The 24 ICs job is to push the Warzone as far as possible, lest the pendulum gets stuck on the wrong side. But recognising that we aren’t going to win the war for the Empire is important. We can, at best, start the real war on favorable ground, in the case of CONCORD collapse.

The tension between warzone escalation on the part of the Heir Arrach Sarum and CONCORD reconcilliations to counter the Triglavian threat is also notable. Sarum forces the Republic to spend more effort on the warzone and less on efforts such as trying to reinvade Skarkon. This is his perogative as Sword Marshal, and I trust it is with full assent of Empress.

That said, the understanding that there is no point at all in the CEWPA Warzone if the core of the Empire is not strong is vital. The various Military Circuits serve the Empress Catiz on the Sacred Throne, not the other way around.


Really, when you frame it like that, it sounds like the best move for the Republic is to let Mikal there be bored for a decade or so and focus instead on things like smuggling the components for a large number of high-yield anti-matter charges onto Athra.

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You said it, not me…

(In seriousness, the prize for borderworlds would be high.)

I said it, but on consideration, I didn’t mean it.

What I meant was: “It sounds like the best move for the Republic is to engage in a minimal effort in the Warzone for a few decades as a pretext to allay suspicion while actually focusing on things like smuggling the components for a large number of high-yield anti-matter charges onto Athra and the homeworlds of each of the Royal Houses, so as to simultaneously annihilate the entire head of the snake.”

Which, you know, would be morally reprehensible, but no moreso than the Empire’s expressly-stated goal of utterly obliterating all other cultures known to man, ever, everywhere.

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That would all but guarantee that worse happened to Matar. Commodore Vektor might not truly be able to destroy worlds, but a sufficiently injured Empire (God forbid such an event!) is more than capable of taking the Republic down with it.

The Gallente Federation might survive the conflagration of a total escalation, though that is no certainty. Trillions would die with certainty.

So, no, that would be a bad plan for everyone except maybe Zorya.


So you’re saying we’d want to scale it up to the point of utterly annihilating the entire Empire in a cataclysmic first strike, then.

I mean, if the entire purpose of the CEWMPA is—as you’ve framed it—a veiled act of aggression against the Republic, then there’s no reason not to respond with an act of aggression large enough to secure peace.

If the whole purpose of it is ‘bleed them so they can’t build up, without making them desperate enough to take real action’, it sounds to me like the CEWMPA is basically ‘how to boil frogs’, and it never ends well for the frog. So why shouldn’t we choose to pursue a course of potential obliteration, rather than one of certain obliteration?

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That is the only strategy the Republic has if it wants to win a war with Amarr.

Fortunately, y’all already shot that bolt in 110 and failed.

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The alternative to assured destruction in time, of course, is actually trying to make peace for real. But that would cause the Tribes to collapse, as we also saw in 110.

Indeed. But that would require the intent on both sides, and there definitely isn’t any of that on the part of the Empire. Trying to make peace for real, after all, wouldn’t include trying to use the mechanisms of peace, like CONCORD, to wage war. Which, as I’ve already laid out for someone of far less erudition, is exactly what the Empire does.

This would not be an option as long as the very core of the Empire’s existence and identity includes the stated goal of cultural genocide against all of human kind. It’s a bit of a non-starter.

Besides, you’re vastly over-estimating the Empire’s invulnerability to war. It’d cost us nigh everything, but if there ever was a people who could allow the bloated and overstretched Empire to expand beyond its breaking point and still be able to apply ten thousand cuts until the Empire killed itself, it’d be the Tribes. So much of our people are now Voidborne that we would survive even a complete and total loss of dirt. The return of Darkness would end up in a very different place happening today, than back then.

The Emperors Heideran and Doriam, of blessed memory, both worked towards peace in good faith. They are dead, now, and that time has passed.

CEWPA is a bad compromise to avoid assured destruction after Shakor shattered that peace offer but missed his shot at the Throne Worlds. So yes, it’s a bad deal for Republic, but is best one they could hope for.


And they weren’t killed by us.

One lived a pretty full span of years, IIRC. And the other… was killed by those in the Empire, so a Chamberlain who was secretly part of an Amarr power cult could take over. But hey, that one guy got dealt with, so it’s all good, right? Couldn’t be systemic rot in the entire hierarchy of the Empire that’ll take decades, if not centuries, to fully uproot.

At the end of the day, though, Gaven, there really isn’t much point to discussing it, is there? Actually acknowledging wrongdoing on the part of the Empire would require being critical of the halls of power, and being willing to voice dissent and dissatisfaction with the course your leaders set forth. And as you’ve made clear a number of times, you feel obedience and loyalty are the ultimate determinants of what constitutes the ‘right’ thing, even if those leaders are later proven to be Blooders or EoM.

No matter how wrong or evil the course, as long as you obey, you are doing the right thing. Which is really, really convenient as a way to avoid personal responsibility, while also being damned convenient for the monsters in power. With the added bonus that you won’t even entertain the possibility that the Empire’s actions can be morally wrong.

Edit, Ah, Lord-Consort Aldrith Suckup-to-Chakaid is posting…

He’s been good-postin’ lately. Don’t discourage continuation of that.
Edit: See?

Thankfully that work is being done now. We shall see the results in time.

Anyway, it is good to see some reasonable discussuon on the prospects of war and peace between Amarr and Minmatar arise from this. I pray our actions on the front stirs some of it between our leaders as well.

Otherwise, I get to be in the vanguard to Pator! And I do not think anyone would like to see that. Well, besides my very chuffed wife.

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No, you won’t. Because you have no guarantees that the work is being done by anyone less corrupt than those you hope to root out.

The only way to ensure that is to make your leaders answerable to those they lead. And that, Aldrith, you will never do.

EDIT: Hell, if I was the insidious evil infiltrators looking to take over the Empire, the first thing I’d do would be to make sure my people are positioned to be the ones doing the investigations. Take over the secret police first, and you can protect the guilty. You can manufacture evidence against the innocent to throw them to the wolves as a cover. In an system where the idea of an actual fair trial is laughable, with justice carried out behind closed doors, by those whose work will only ever be reviewed by one another… you’re basically asking to be led by corrupt megalomaniacs willing to do anything to anyone, and violate any principle, moral, or scripture, in the pursuit of power.

Never say never.

It’ll never happen. Never.

And you know it—your own words about why you chose to publicly support Chakaid showed that. If you didn’t, your family was at risk. Not because he was a good or moral man, but because he had power, and there were plenty of people in the MIO and Tetrimon willing to use… creative interpretations of the truth, if someone in power wanted them to. The investigators themselves are corrupt.

But we both know you can’t say that, either. At best, you can issue some kind of limp denial and assurance that you don’t believe it. Because if you actually do publicly express concern like that… well, then you’re disloyal, and your family’s back at risk.

At least we haven’t gotten quite that bad. We can still say ‘Shakor’s network of conspirators murdered a large number of Republic citizens and fabricated the ‘evidence’ they left behind because they’re a corrupt bunch of sycophants in service of a madman with a lust for power’ and not have to worry about whether or not our families are next.

At least, not yet.

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I’ll tell you this for nothing, though: if the Empire really wanted to mess w/the Republic, the best thing they could do right now would be to pull Sarum’s leash. Yank him back and get him off of Floseswin and other planets in the warzone, and make it absolutely clear that nothing like that would be tolerated in the future. Do eveything they could to remove the pretext for Shakor’s ‘Emergency Powers’.

Then see if he resigns, as the law requires.

You speak as someone who believes in the power of words over deeds whilst failing to realise that yours especially have both the volume and value as grains of sand in a desert. I really have little care of what you say, Arrendis. Yapping discouragements towards me has no effect; only foolish, limp-willed children would make the mistake of believing them. Words have meaning, they have power, certainly, but mine are to be used with care. My actions, however, speak for me between those times.

I know I have made a difference in the struggle to heal my Empire, and so do others. Over and over, I have sought to prove my loyalty and ability to right the wrongs here, and with each deed my words will have more effect than that of a tongue-flapper who overuses the tasteless fruits of their empty head until theirs have no meaning. You are one of these, and attached at your hip is another. Perhaps I should be grateful your clumsy rolling through of our gardens picked up that bit of rubbish and removed it from our sight before it could do more damage to itself and us.

Despite your flawed impression of us, honesty is actually a highly valued trait in the Faith, even when speaking to power. We just do it more tactfully than the disrespectful displays seen in the Federation and Rebel Provinces. Words to live by for us:

“For it is only in the garden of a just and truthful society, watered by well measured faith, that we may cultivate the spirit of the people.”
– The Scriptures, Seventh Letter of St. Junip of Aerui

Your are correct that some have forgotten this. I have not. Many others have not. And we will remind the rest.