You had no idea who you’re talking to, did you? That was, frankly, hilarious, all things considered.
Nonsense. We’ve never engaged in terrorism. All of our violence has been against capsuleers and capsuleer-owned structures. Under CONCORD’s rules, those aren’t civilians. We’ve also never engaged in any acts of asymmetric warfare with the intention of causing fear among civilian populations in order to press a political agenda.
We commit violence against other capsuleers—again, not civilians—when we want to press a political agenda.
No, technically, I tell Mittens the truth. When that’s ‘you’re being stupid’, that’s what I tell him. Usually, other people tell him that faster. (Seriously, people love being able to tell him when he’s being dumb. What’s even better is when he’s rambling and some junior Skirmish Commander tells him to shut the hell up on comms. Mittens will gush happily about what an awesome job that SC did of maintaining order and not being intimidated for months.)
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Oh Saronu. You were doing so well until this line! Alas.
No, but if they’re in goons, the statement actually rings more true than if they were in minmil.
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That one’s not in Goons, she’s Electus Matari’s Krusual diplomat.
Indeed.
This GalNet communications thread has strayed somewhat too far from its original purpose. Off topic subjects should either not be engaged with or replied to in threads dealing with these different topics.
Arguments as to standing to discuss a topic are not constructive and may well be off topic. They are best avoided.
This thread should rapidly return to its original subject matter and the relatively focused halo of related subjects directly bearing on it.
Thank you for your co-operation,
Arve Vesren
Director Of Information Quarantine Operations
Directive Enforcement Department
CONCORD Assembly
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The light of a candle is only relevant in the context of the darkness which it dispels. The total victory of the 24th Imperial Crusade can only achieved, by definition, by a defeat equal in magnitude of the minmatar militia. Minmil now holds an appropriate number of systems (zero) and structures (zero). Many justifications and excuses for the current mismatch of power in the region have been offered. Some say that the influences of local pirates are to blame for the state of things, and that they have tipped the balance by destroying minmil staging structures. However, these claims are not compatible with the evidence:
With exception to perhaps one structure in the above list, no resistance was encountered. The subjects of the glorious empire did much to earn their victory, just as the rebellious savages of the minmatar militia have thoroughly earned their defeat. When a toddler is taking their first steps, it is advisable that they attempt to walk before trying to run. Similarly, one might advise the architects of minmil logistical infrastructure (if there is such a thing) that they might try learning to form proper fleets before anchoring the structures from which they anticipate deploying them.
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Reminder that yet again, the good guys win.
We are indeed counting down the days. But the countdown is simply waiting for you and your band of slaves to regain the stones to come and try fight us.
The heat from my guns and afterburners are starting to cool and I am growing rather fed up of waiting.
Waiting for us? Wanting us to be better? Wanting to stop bullying us? You Amarrians spend a lot of time thinking about us “Slaves” for such a an “inept” group you seem to care a lot about who we are? and how we perform?
We on the other hand care nothing for you… Just more Slavers to kill, Every time you speak we laugh, Every time you die we laugh, Nothing you can say will dissuade us from our path… Your only relevance is our existence, we on the other hand have countless enemies and endless time.
We Come For People!
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Since CONCORD ruined the popcorn, let me say something in a more serious manner.
I see a lot of arguments in this thread that are symptomatic of a certain narrowing of view that Militia involvement and Militia wars beget. I have been there - thought not for long stretches in recent years - and I remember how it gets. The Militia war starts to feel like the war, each victory like a meaningful step in itself, you lose the sight of the big picture. The only time you remember the pendulum phenomenon is when you lose and you remind yourself that it is what it is. You see a lot of that here: showing individual unopposed kills as proof that certain influences on the warzone do not exist, using “the Minmatar/Amarr” for “Minmatar/Amarr Militia”, assuming everyone who speaks for one nation or the other must be enlisted Militia, posts not aimed at giving information but to throw mud and threats in order to provoke a reaction.
The world is wider than the CEMWPA. And it is in the context of that wider world this victory should be analyzed and judged, and commended or condemned too, as need be. An individual pendulum swing is nothing, in general. This holds here too. Pretty much everyone in this thread has seen several. Some of us have seen several total control situations too, one way or the other.
So the question is: is there anything here that makes this one special?
Commander Vektor brought up one such thing: the structure control situation. While he is correct that it is not the sole cause of it, it does tie in to a second special situation: what pirate support there is to the CEMWPA parties on the warzone, it is currently predominantly forces who will support the 24th but not TLF. (Not, I think, because the pirates love the Empire particularly, but because they do not care, and benefits, material and immaterial, have been offered to them to make it so. I might be wrong. I am, for some reason, not included in those negotiations.)
Those are warzone specific observations. More importantly, there are other, even wider special cases that surround this situation. Most notably, this current total control situation aligns with Sarum’s ground attacks, the legality of which is still under scrutiny by CONCORD Inner Council. Never before has total control of the warzone coincided with such an escalation of wider wars. What that will mean to politics in practice, if anything, remains to be seen, but it is definitely different from what it usually is.
Going even wider, this situation comes after the forming of Edencom and after a lot of international co-operation of forces traditionally hostile to each other. That does not bring only hopes of peace, it also brings tensions and it brings unusual troop movements. There are Edencom fortresses with Amarr personnel staged on full war footage in for example Jark and Sasta. And even further, we live in a situation where the Amarr Empire is in turmoil after an EoM conspiracy has been revealed, and where it is uncertain who all was involved, and also who all was not involved - I believe it has been pointed out that all other individuals involved in the assumed EoM attacks were present in the final one, except those who attacked Floseswin. The political situation is unprecedented and unpredictable.
I would not be very quick to dismiss the current warzone situation as “just a pendulum swing”. “The Pendulum” is by nature a war of attrition, and its each swing comes very close to the fragile border of peace between the CEMWPA zone and core worlds. One day, unless something changes, the effects of attrition and the depth of the swing will coincide, and the pendulum will swing just enough further that the peace shatters. Maybe not this time, but one day, on one side or the other, it will happen, as each high swing in one way makes the next one to the other more bitter, too.
When I was younger and the Militia wars were new, people used to say of them: 'the tide comes in, the tide goes out, but the shore remains.’ It is a pretty image, but in reality shores do not always remain, they get eaten by the waves.
Elsebeth Shaninn
Of Rhiannon, born Rhiannon
Sebiestor Tribe
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Whilst I don’t overly disagree with this post, I do have an issue with these repeated claims of pirate involvement.
In the past, pirate influences have been on both sides, with Minmatar repeatedly seen asking for help in pirate channels, and indeed, hiring known pirates to lead their fleets.
Amarr do not call upon pirate alliances to do their work for them, and indeed a large part of this last year was spent repelling the invasion of Snuffed into the region. The olive branch was put out to Minmatar to join our fleets in order to help defend the region, efforts which were rebuffed and even a structure ceasefire during the Snuffed incursion was dishonourably broken by Minmatar during these times.
Divine Commodore Mikal had up to these events ordered us to refrain from removing Minmatar assets from the warzone, but following these disgraceful events, led us on a cleansing crusade, resulting in the destruction of all Minmatar structures in the warzone.
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I am not party to these negotiations, as I said. And yes, there are and have been plenty of shady types on both sides of in the Militias; criminals, borderline heretics, pirates, multiple-times traitors. Blooders, Angels, Sansha, and Pro-Triglavians. You could even say it is the nature of the Militias; privateers often rather than an army.
Whatever. My observation was not intended as a moral judgment or mud-slinging of any kind, merely just an observation about how these times are different than previous.
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Well you are, simply put, our favorite play things.
Does a child easily forget their favorite toy? Does a cat not play with its prey before devouring it?
We come for you people.
I would love to see from where you’re observing these observations because I belive you need to get your vision checked.
Being one of the fleet commanders for the amarr militia I feel my vision is a little less blurry than yours.
Last time we had pirates on grid during one of our structure fights they destroyed several of our Legion vessels.
And I can recall several times before that where we’ve ended up fighting the pirate forces as minmatar watched from the safety of tether whilst picking through the wreckages of the battle waging infront of them.
To say that you’re meerly obersving and then admitting you don’t really know whats going on within the warzone leads me to believe that your opinion, which it is. Is best reserved for yourself. As you havn’t been there in person to witness said battles.
I normally stay away from this place as most conversations here end up like this one with a few people that just want to provoke and try to win points with gotcha moments and seemingly smart talking points aim to derail and make it about themselves.
Nevertheless I felt like I should at least give a short statement.
I respect the efforts that lead to the total amarrian control of the warzone. That respect extends to most of the involved pilots. Celebrate your victory without biggering over comments of bitter and broken word acrobats and lawers. And celebrate it in the certanty that it will not last. Matari Invictus.
The claims that the Minmatar Militia was beaten and lost all its structures because or in the process of this is simply not true. The decline in held structures started more then two years ago with the destruction of multiple crucial structures by local and not so local pirate groups and reached its climax with the loss of our Fortizar and the surrounding structures in Kamela by the hands of those pirate groups. The strutures that remained where mostly just that remains. At least we as a group were fed up with the fixation on those structures. So in short while I am convinced that the amarr militia does not widely cooperate with pirates it benefitted from the actions of pirates and in the end just cleared out the remains with little to no opposition. And this is refering to structures.
The eviction out ot the warzone was a much greater deed that the destruction of those citadels (and despite the claims here there are still plenty citadels left under our direct control).
Neither of both resulted in a loss of spirit tho. We have been here before and the first time it was way worse.
This is of course only my oppinion (tho its backed by facts that even Mikal can look up via his beloved e-genital-messuring tool).
We´ll see you in the warzone soon slaver scum.
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The respect as a foe (though not as a person) is returned, Thorson. Our victory will indeed not last. Yours will not either. Let us hope that one of our peoples can extract some meaning out of this. And that it is ours, and not the other’s.
Amarr Victor.
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This is the kind of exchange that this place needs more of. I do not contest your assessment over the current status of minmil structures. However, I think that even you realize that the current trajectory of the minmatar militia is bleak. You will remember that an attempt was made to foster coordination between the militias to repel a far more insidious mutual foe. You may also remember that these attempts floundered as a consequence of UNITY’s inability to make its pilots adhere to its own agreements. I have the logs between myself and your head diplomat at the time, Xaar, which confirm this, if you’re interested. The consequence of this was that both of our structures burned, so I reject the notion that CTRLV somehow benefited from UK’s failure in organization in this regard.
Whether minmil rebounds and retakes the warzone, I think you are probably correct. We have seen these systems change hands time and time again. However, whether UNITY will ever play an pivotal role in deciding the balance of power in the region is a query with a similarly predictable response…
This is the key to understanding the CEWPA war and the current status quo of the CONCORD agreement. The pendulum must swing or the agreement breaks. If it swings against Amarr for too long, then the agreement stops draining the Republic’s ability to raise secret fleets. If it swings against the Tribes, it makes them liable to commit catastrophic acts out of desperation. Calling it a pendulum is not an insult, in many cases, but instead it is a recognition of the purpose of the conflict.
Worrying about this is above our paygrade in the Militia. The 24 ICs job is to push the Warzone as far as possible, lest the pendulum gets stuck on the wrong side. But recognising that we aren’t going to win the war for the Empire is important. We can, at best, start the real war on favorable ground, in the case of CONCORD collapse.
The tension between warzone escalation on the part of the Heir Arrach Sarum and CONCORD reconcilliations to counter the Triglavian threat is also notable. Sarum forces the Republic to spend more effort on the warzone and less on efforts such as trying to reinvade Skarkon. This is his perogative as Sword Marshal, and I trust it is with full assent of Empress.
That said, the understanding that there is no point at all in the CEWPA Warzone if the core of the Empire is not strong is vital. The various Military Circuits serve the Empress Catiz on the Sacred Throne, not the other way around.
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Really, when you frame it like that, it sounds like the best move for the Republic is to let Mikal there be bored for a decade or so and focus instead on things like smuggling the components for a large number of high-yield anti-matter charges onto Athra.
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