Certainly. One should never risk self-serving empathy and understanding. Much better to trust self-serving fairy tales.
ā¦ And youāve obviously never studied, let alone read them, as many of the scientific principles in the technology that have made Empyreans possible is first laid out in the scriptures.
Actually youād be wrong about that being self-proclaimed.
The title of āgreatest sabik philosopher in yearsā was given to me by a chap by the name of Cardinal Graelyn some years ago.
Iāve just polished it a little.
Ah, I see now. And with that standard may I take this opportunity to re-introduce myself,
Uriel MurkāUdoria, āThe Smartest Boy I Knowā, bestowed on me by my Mother.
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Yes, well, I assume your mother wasnāt actually one of your political opponents.
Cardinal Graelyn on the other hand, wasnāt my father, (unless my mother has even more of a mysterious past than I am aware of), and was a great opponent of sabik capsuleers since the beginning of the capsuleer era, and as he himself said āIāve seen plenty of sabik eggers, so know a smart one if I see themā.
Do you maybe have where and when this title was bestowed on you documented with a portrait or such? Perhaps like an honorific diploma? Do you often holo project it at Sani Sabik mixers when making a point in casual discussions with people youāve just met?
Ah-- respectfully, sir, (1) Cardinal Graelyn is in fact a long-familiar and respected name. Heās been relatively quiet of late but heās been about. And, (2) āGreatest Sani Sabik capsuleer philosopher of the modern eraā is a very low bar. (I might even edit out the ācapsuleer.ā)
Dr. Valate also happens to be one of the least-horrible, which might not be a coincidence.
Anyway itās more one of those titles you can decide whether itās appropriate almost immediately if youāve spent any significant time dealing with Sabik. (Who, come to think of it, are also very much the kinds of people who invent grandiose titles for themselves. In this case though sheās probably not wrong?)
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And I am sure Cardinal Graelyn is indeed and is off living their current cloneās best life.
That said, a continuous announcing of a once received passing comment regarding oneās abilities or achievements from a third party, is as ridiculous as carrying about your letters received within the academy through the decades. It is on the same level as the act of the name dropping itself.
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I mean, on the one hand, yes, on the other ā¦
ā¦ never mind, sir. Itāll become clear if you deal with her over time. Or encounter other Sabik much. Or visit Kaztropol for longer than half an hour.
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Considering the Jove were older than the Amarr, no, this is blatantly not true. Heck, even the Amarr Scriptures indicate the original technologies of spaceflight and interstellar colonization were developed and executed by people whoāsave for one small population that would follow Gheinokādid not believe in the Amarr God at all.
That the fairy tales include scientific information they did not invent means exactly as little as a fairy tale mentioning bread.
Itās really more of a commentary on the lack of other Sani philosophers over the decades. She wrote a thing. Some people were impressed. Nobody else has written a thing within the same vein1, so sheās still got the belt, uncontested. 
1. Pun totally intended after-the-fact. 
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Non sequitur.
So the Jove went aboutā¦ and gave everyone, all their technology that led to this age of Empyreans, with no one ever doing anything for science and engineering to achieve space flight on their own? Is that what you are claiming? The pod, specifically, sure was Jove as are a few other technologies. That said, no, the Amarr had many breakthroughs, as did others, which propagated among us without being handed out by the Jove. If anything, the Jove actively manipulated suppression of scientific and technological discovery in effort to meet their own agendas.
Right, back to the translator hereā¦ hmnnā¦
Facts donāt support what I say, so I handwave off the historical documentation that contradicts me.
Ah, I see, well, that makes the stance a bit clearer I suppose.
No. Iām claiming that the Amarr Scriptures are not the source of any technologies. Multiple different groups rediscovered spaceflight all on their own. And the Jove retained far more technology and knowledge than the Amarr, all without needing the imaginary man in the sky. So the presence of scientific information in the Amarr scriptures isnāt indicative of any merit to the supernatural claims in the same works.
Here, since you apparently havenāt the wit to understandā¦
You talk about āoh, the Scriptures contain scientific informationā as if itās supposed to prove something. It doesnāt. Plenty of fairy stories include scientific information. For example: Mastery of fire. Agriculture. Tool use for fine-processing of organic materials.
Citing Empyrean technology (which, no, isnāt in the Amarr Scriptures prior to the Jove sharing their tech, thatās why the Empyrean Age begins with the marriage of capsule and clone) is no more persuasive than fairy tales that feature other technologyā¦ like bread, which brings together Agriculture, Fire, Tool Useā¦
And no, not even the scientific principles are somehow unique to the Amarr Scriptures. If they were, the Gallente and Caldari wouldnāt have already fought an interstellar war by the time either of them encountered the Amarr. The Jove wouldnāt have been on their third empire. The Drifters and Trigsācontemporaries of the Second Empireāwouldnāt exist.
You have to make a distinction between what you might call the historical or narrative Scriptures - āThe people travelled to Athra from the old world aboard giant shipsā which clearly indicates that space travel was known to be a thing from the beginning - and what you might call the technical or scientific Scriptures, which are generally a lot more recent, and are a record of how such things were reinvented, rediscovered, and so on, and describe principles and best practices for use of contemporary technologies, not the technologies of old.
i.e. the current Scriptures relating to interstellar travel relate to the design and development of modern-day ships over the past 2000 years of Amarr space travel and not to the ships from fifteen thousand years ago, which we know existed, but have no technical documentation on how they functioned.
Moving the goal post. You claimed them fairy tales in their entirety before.
Thats what you originally said. And that is what I addressed.
Now you say what, I make a specific claim, an appeal to some manner requiring supernatural explanation. So where is it, present it please.
I stated that scientific principles, which would provide the foundations for technologies which lead to the Empyrean were first laid out in their forms which are contained within the Scriptures. You seem to think all scientific history vanished, with the Joveās āgiftā of the pod to the Caldari, when what they did was also a contribution. Further, you conflate the Jove having technology, technology they did not āgiftā to others, that was brought to our mutual uses from our own independent discovery, part of which was contained within the Scriptures, and laid out there first, and how it came to be shared with others.
If anything, you seem to be a Jovianātheist, believing them responsible by some supernatural manner for all otherās independent accomplishments merely because of their civilizationās timeline to others for such, despite them not making their knowledge accessible to any outside themselves as they observed us discovering it on our own.
I claimed they were fairy tales. I still claim theyāre fairy tales. Are fairy tale that include breadcrumbs not fairy tales because breadcrumbs are a real thing? Of course not.
I mean, if you really wantā¦
Thereās at least four claims requiring supernatural explanation, right there.
- āa life of savage spiritual regressionā. Please demonstrate the existence of anything āspiritualā.
- ābrought through Reclaimingā. Reclaiming is itself a claim to bring people ābackā into obedient one-ness with God through Holy Amarr. āGodā is a supernatural claim, thus, anything involving Reclaiming is also dependent on supernatural explanation. Otherwise, your āReclaimingā becomes only cultural genocide and personal avarice.
- āBy Providenceāāunless youāre attributing this course to the region of space between Domain and Catch, this is a shorthand for ādivine providenceā, ie, the protective care of Godā¦ which also requires God, and so, supernatural explanation
- āDeus vultā. Hey, lookit thatā¦ God again.
There you go. Presented.
Not only did I say no such thing, I specifically indicated it did not. Instead, you put forth the implication that āEmpyrean technologyā was reliant upon mysteries revealed in the Amarr Scriptures, which it absolutely isnāt. The Jove were cited solely as an example of just how reliant upon the Amarr Scriptures the cluster has never been.
Youāve got too many letters there. Lose the āJā,āoā,āvā,āiā,ānā, and the apostrophe.
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