This idea has the potential to end botting as we know it. And it wont just be miners it will also be ratters. The idea is to have toxic clouds spawn in asteroid belts. There should be no warning or indication other than a subtle visual one. It doesent have to be a toxic cloud. But it should be some kind of environmental effect that results in you losing your ship if you dont warp out in time. By having it only displayed visually and in a relatively subtle manner, bots may not be able to detect it. So players will warp out, but bots will stay in and die.
All asteroid and ice belts should have a random chance to be affected by this phenomenon and an affliction should last a few days. Its just a nugget of an idea and needs to be thought out carefully and in more detail tho. GOOD BYE
The mineral market is suffering from rorquals and moon belts in hi-sec. If we’re going to do something about mineral prices, more direct nerfs here would probably be better.
Honestly, do we need the +15% variants of arkonor, bistot and crokite in hi-sec? How about just normal variants?
This idea could also potentially end belt ratting bots if implemented correctly. The idea is that the mechanic is developed so that only players can detect it, but bots cannot - until its too late and they lose their ship. I feel like it should be possible to do.
if you make difficulties that can be surpassed with ships/modules for a null block that might bottleneck their efforts for a little while but the miners will adapt. in all reality the only real miner nerf is NPC actions be it blood raider outposts or NPC miners due to formidable resistance and their desire to eat entire belts before DT.
@Daichi_Yamato does have a point that HS is the anomaly here being we need a marginally safe space for the inexperienced and the poor to gain traction, but in this safe area we’ve made a flood in the minerals market.
whether or not this is going to actually kill the economy of eve or just make a higher ship output? stands to be said.
The person who said this isnt compelling gameplay isnt able to imagine the variance the idea ads so let me help him.
Right now every belt is pretty much the same. You warp in, either there is rats or not. With this implemented there is an addtional chance of “environmental” hazard, the game becomes ever so slightly more compelling. However, dont compare this idea with some kind of expansion that will blow you away. This is a relatively minor idea that shouldnt be disqualified simply because “the idea isnt big enough”
edit I also think i figured out how to make it bot proof so that bots will die but playes will not. Simply put the hazard is displayed visually. I mean the screen could just get foggy. I dont think bots can easily detect this so they wont figure it out until its too late. Obviously there should be a timer so that players are able to warp out, but bots will just start mining or killing rats if any are present with the inevitable result their ship is destroyed.
High sec is clearly not a flood of materials and when you consider nearly all of nulls mining is high end while hardly any of high sec is, it’s clear where the issue is.
A mechanic that randomly makes the player go somewhere else without any player ability to change the situation is bad. Now if the dangerous gas clouds could be “cleaned up” aka harvested and turned into something (awesome drugs? ?) then that might be cool.
I am not convinced that any area should be immune, I would say let the devs use real data to make that decision.
A mechanic that randomly makes the player go somewhere else without any player ability to change the situation is bad.
Why? In this instance it has the potential to harm bots, it raises the number of threats you can encounter in asteroid belts and it means a rogue group players in an isolated system are going to be able to mine less since belts would have additional downtime overall. You think thats a bad idea?
Because player agency is key.
Think of the activity you like the most.
Then imagine that RNG said 1 day in 4 it simply couldn’t be done.
And it wouldn’t harm bots. Anything players can detect bots can too.
And it wouldn’t harm bots. Anything players can detect bots can too.
This is just wrong. One example are captchas. Bots are really bad at detecting things that are displayed on the screen. But ■■■■ it. I dont want to argue with you idiots im out
Lets just start with that shall we. And no player would want to be constantly having to solve things on that level just to get any feedback. Then consider that you would start taking damage which is also feedback that is super obvious and can be written to a text file, which is super easy for a bot to read, and then used.
Educate yourself.
Haha i knew you would go there. Never did i say captas should be implemented. It could be relatively sublte changes to the environment. Bots will not be able to easily detect it. But even if it doesent end botting thats besides the point. It still raises the number of threats people can encounter in asteroids, and it makes people who hide in isolated systems less profitable when it comes to mining because belts have more downtime. It encourages people to spread out ever so slightly. Now please stop derailing the thread with your stupid politics. Be constructive or gtfo.
If it’s subtle enough that bots can’t detect it then it’s subtle enough a lot of players won’t.
This makes your argument about it hurting bots irrelevant and a straw-man.
What it actually will do is cause people to just log off and come back tomorrow, especially when it comes to mining. Because it’s not as simple as just taking your ratting ship next door and shooting rats.
You would have to move your entire infrastructure one system over, aka duplicate it all. Which simply is not worth it.
Mining is already one of the lowest incomes in the game, even rorqual mining isn’t super income compared to stuff like super ratting, it just scales a bit better. So you are bashing the little guy vastly more.
If the problem is high end ore prices crashing because players are overmining certain ores, then uh… why do we care? They can just mine the now most valuable low end minerals instead.
As for politics. What politics. I’m providing referenced arguments as to why your claims are wrong, and it won’t have the effect you think it would.
So be it. Or they could develop an additional system for mining. Right? If things get as bad as you say and miners end up logging out then mineral prices will increase and eventually having sovereignty/infrastructure in more than one system will be feasible…
Mining is already one of the lowest incomes in the game, even rorqual mining isn’t super income compared to stuff like super ratting, it just scales a bit better. So you are bashing the little guy vastly more.
This is a moot point and just more politicising. Please stop doing it.
If the problem is high end ore prices crashing because players are overmining certain ores, then uh… why do we care? They can just mine the now most valuable low end minerals instead.
This is a multi faceted idea, the gist of it is that bots will die - at least in the beginning, until they figure out how to deal with the new threat. I dont think they ever will, if its done correctly, but lets see. 2) Asteroid belts will have more downtime, both for ratters and miners so having access to multiple systems gets a little more benefit. Last but not least it simply enhances the player experience a little because the number of possible threats you can encounter has increased. I think it makes perfect sense asteroid belts have a random chance to have environmental threats instead of only rats.
What environmental threats are going to threaten a starship that can withstand literal antimatter explosions and nuclear bombs? If you want to talk about things making physical sense. We throw car sized nuclear weapons at each other in salvoes every 10 seconds. That’s like an ICBM every 10 seconds. So… Lets not try the appeal to realism here shall we, because it’s going to fall down utterly.
Also any system that encourages players to just log out is a terrible one. Getting players to stay logged in should always be the aim for the game.
Now if you want it to be that gas clouds cease being super rare signatures and instead become things that envelop belts and do damage, and you have to switch to a gas miner to suck the clouds up, and when you are done you can go back to regular mining… That’s different.
Player agency is retained, there is an action they can take that still delivers profit which will solve their problem.
And if the spawn rates, quantities and types of gas are well balanced it might even be a looked forward to event, because it could actually be worth more, despite the interruption to the normal mining.
While it sounds like a fun idea is this not going to make a lot of difference.
A game should never be changed only to make it harder for botters, because it can potentially interfere with the actual players more than it does with a botter. It ends up being a benefit for the botter, because they can again automate the problem away, while players have to deal with a new problem and do so manually.
Instead, the reverse is usually all round better. Support the actual players, make their game better and less repetitive, and thereby reduce the incentive for botting in the first place. A game is designed for players after all and changes should always keep their game-play in mind and not blindly try to swat some non-player problem, which we know will come back again and again. If an anti-botting solution drives out actual players, then you have created a bigger problem than the one you had before.
Botters can then readout screens, they sometimes read the entire game’s memory, just to automate their responses. They simply won’t have a problem to counter your suggestion. So in your case will it only end up making the life of miners harder, drive the mineral prices up a little, and botters end up winning even more.
In short, focus on the players and not on the botters. Report botters when you see them.
Mining the belts isn’t a big activity in null. Anomaly mining is where the ISK is and even if some anomalies had clouds in them, there’s still plenty of others to mine.
?) then that might be cool.