All the anonymous internet people are very impressed, I’m sure. Can we can get this thread back on topic?
What actually needs to change with the tutorials available now? I dont think OP’s suggestion is very necessary in the same way that any lvl 1 fodder enemy in any other game does not give me grand disallusions about what PvP will be like
CCP Games calls Eve Online a „PvP game at its core“ in the newbie player FAQ. So thinking otherwise is disingenuous.
This is because Eve Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core.
Which is why I did not touch the game with a bargepole for ten years after it came out, until I read enough to suspect it was over-egged in terms of the primary gameplay style, tried it, and satisfied myself that it was indeed over-egged. Apart from typically a single half-hour trade run each week with moderate gank risk, most of the time I play with a very small PvP risk and enjoy what I do.
Yes, @Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras is right that industry/market can legitimately be viewed as PvP in a sense, but it is not what most people think as PvP and does not entail ship loss or aggression, just good old financial acumen.
In any case, “PvP at its core” is not the same thing as “mainly PvP”. Important, if precise and subtle, difference.
Anyway, I have made my point, do not want to see the thread derail any further. It is nonsense though, IMHO, to try to build PvP combat into the NPE, because the NPE has to be self-standing and available at any starter location 24/7.
This is a lot of words for the semantic quibble of „well CCP didn’t use the word mainly“ which is a distinction without a difference. You’d be excellent at splitting hairs on a bald man.
Keep telling yourself whatever keeps you playing in game, but don’t go around deceiving new players into thinking the game is something it is not. CCP already does this with its „get rich mining“ advertisements and the last thing rookies need are players doing the same thing.
Now who’s wriggling?
Clearly important semantic detail is lost on you, your original statement stands as palpably false.
Perhaps you are better at semiotics?
TTFN
So when CCP say in one place that Eve is a “PvP game at its core”, you quote it approvingly, but when the same CCP say “you can get rich mining” that is deceitful advertising? So believe CCP when it suits you, disbelieve them when it suits you?
Brilliant Holmes, brilliant. 
Except it’s not “important”.
“Mainly about…” or “at its core…” is basically the same thing. You’re just playing on words to save face because you know you’re wrong.
What is important, however, is knowing that everytime you undock you consent to PvP. Go on and say that’s wrong, too. Please.
Oh, it’s only “palpably…” ? Good, at least it’s not *completely" 
Perhaps you are better at antibiotics? 
But keep wriggling, it’s entertaining.
Oh dear, it is important. Precise use of language is important. You may not be capable of it, but you really should appreciate its value.
This constant nonsense about “undocking you consent to PvP”. Again, precise language is that “undocking means you recognise the risk of PvP.” Not the same as “consent”, but again that nuance will be lost on you.
Sorry I floored you with semiotics.
Anyway, toodle pip.
Yea. Toodle is good. I don’t need to argue with a blind and deaf dictionary.
You are the one claiming it’s not a PvP game at its core and I provided a New Player substantive resource produced by CCP to counter that argument.
I mentioned that CCP produces advertisements (not substantive new player materials) to goad new players into trying a game and yes I am arguing they cannot „get rich mining“ contrary to the advertisement. You’re not countering this argument.
This is reflective of critical thought and earnestly evaluating and being critical of sources, because authors can indeed be be unreliable. You criticizing the use of sources believing it’s some sort of hypocrisy just reflects poorly on you.
This says far more about your lack of critical thought than anything about me.
I contested the statement “mainly PvP”. As explained above, the statement “PvP at its core” is a very different statement, and not one which I contest. What I am saying is that my past decade of playing tells me that PvP can be very incidental to perfectly satisfactory gamestyles. Your lack of comprehension of this basic point perhaps ought to prompt you to reflect upon your own cognitive reasoning.
Toodle pip.
I agree with you. It’s because the game has PvP at its core. Or is mainly PvP. Or is a PvP game primarily. Or whatever magical combination of words that will get you to agree with the idea underlying them all.
I’m telling you that you falling back on an imaginary „mainly PvP“ versus „PvP at its core“ is an argument about words (uninteresting), not actually an argument about different ideas.
Case in point: you refuse to elaborate on the difference because there is none. Taking every opportunity to do so to instead make up insults in lieu of making an argument that can stand on its merits.
OK. “PvP at its core” states that there is always an irreducible element, a risk, of PvP.
“Mainly PvP” is a percentage. It is a claim that over 50% of the game is PvP. That is only true for those who seek PvP as a playstyle, or are reckless haulers or miners.
Big difference. A nuclear missile has a fissionable material at its core, but is not mainly fissionable material. A car has an engine at its core, but is not mainly an engine.
I am sorry that basic English comprehension is so difficult for some people, and prevents them from understanding that all along I have been making an argument “based on its merits”. If you cannot comprehend the important semantic differences, then you will not be able to perceive merit in such argument.
Anyway, enough, tired of this nonsense. Go and strut around thinking that you have won an argument on these fora if that makes you feel happy.
That’s how I differenciate between idiots and thoughtful individuals. It usually takes me 2 minutes to sort them out but on forums, with beating around the bush and playing with words, it takes a little longer but they eventually unmask themselves with juvenile attitudes.
Thank you, @Io_Koval, for patiently making my points. 
This is always true. Glad we agree upon this.
This is meaningless and not rigorous enough. What is „50% of the game is PvP“? Is it man-hours spent hunting and getting blown up (>50% by zKill)? Is it hours spent in a „PvP core game“ (100%)? What metric do you use to judge this? Or is it a gut feel you have and it „just feels right“.
Look, everyone is going to scroll up and see your endless tirade of upset insults as I patiently have to guide you through an earnest discussion. You can keep mouthing off. No one is stopping you.
But let me be clear: if you feel insulted or attacked or injured, it is a direct consequence of your own actions. I have only asked tough but pointed questions. If you don’t want to feel like an insulted fool, then simply stop acting the part to begin with. It’s sad to watch.
and you can still get ganked in an abyssal
For the record, I feel neither insulted nor a fool. I just despair of the arrogance of individuals who think they are superior in an argument when they lack the comprehension to understand the point being made. I do not insist on them agreeing with the point, but accepting the point or the opposing opinion.
Sadly, typical of a certain blinkered echo-chamber that is too prevalent on here.
Is it really a gank in Abyss though? Because I was under the impression that Ganking only happens in Hisec.
I would love for a knowledgeable member to clarify because I’ve read “gank in Lowsec” “gank in Null”… and “only in Hisec”.
It’s only important to me for future reference.
Okay you can get killed in an abyssal happy?
