Is there an error in the spreadsheet with the network conduits mats?
Is the 40 Hypnagogic Neurolink Booster/Cogni-Emotive Neurolink Booster/Sense-Heuristic Neurolink Booster/Ultradian-Cycling Electro-Neural Signaller correct?
This implies that at current prices these items cost 25-30m each. So using 100 of these in a faction battleship adds 2.5bn to their cost!
If one only used 1 in the blueprint, then the unit cost would be 1m-1.2m, in which case 100 would add 100m to the cost of a faction battleship.
But it does, new solo industry players can now skip the market for resources.
This new change allows new industrialists to make simple t1 ships with minerals they obtained themselves mining in high sec, so people arenât forced to set up industry next to an existing trade hub for minerals. (And compete with the thin margins there!)
That definitely makes things easier for new industrialists.
⌠Cause theyâre not gonna have to go to a tradehub to sell later. Right. And theyâre also not gonna need to go to null to get actually decent margins. Cause itâs totally worth it to build t1 frigates and dessies.
Youâve gone of the ledge my lad.
This change is increasing tedium by a huge amount for everybody but the first day industrialist (that is, what industrialists do on their first day and never again). And for these first day industrialists, itâs not even a noticeable change, since in all practical sense they will be near a tradehub anyways. Next.
You know what. Just becuase you said that im going to shut down all production and make nothing but T1 Destroyer/Frigates. Hundreds and millions of them and flood the market to a point where new players will definiately not make any profit on anything.
Not as a small time high sec industrialist itâs not. Itâs only worth it in large scale, with good ME. You are only proving further your utter incompetence on the topic.
You must have the Tech2 BPO for Goalpost on Wheels.
Also now youâre talking about profit - which is business. If youâre having trouble with profit, get better at business.
Industry is building things. If someone wants 20 Thrashers but doesnât want to go to Jita to buy them and then fly them out 1 by 1 to where they live, itâs absolutely worth it for them to build them right where they live. Which now they will be able to.
Someone starting with industry has to learn how to do industry before they make a profit.
That âgetting into ship building industryâ part has been made easier. Whether it is profitable is completely irrelevant until that point, that would be the next step.
Making profit is part of industry. If you do industry just to change thing A to thing B. You are no different from people that claim, their minerals are free.
Current f* up industry and no profit in T1 (no profit for new players) is result of such attitude. Market is integral part of industry
That is ridiculous. So L1 missions should be done at a loss, then? Because theyâre âlearningâ how to run missions? No. You donât get into an activity at a loss. Besides, whatâs there to learn? To press âbuildâ with a simple list of requirements, and waiting? Seriously? The whole learning part of industry is the âturning a profitâ part (which can be further subdivised into âmechanical efficiencyâ -e.g. using an appropriate structure, with appropriate rigging, potentially in more dangerous space, as well as of course the bluepringt ME-, âproduction line efficiencyâ -e.g. âwhat am I willing to source locally to reduce freight costsâ, thatâs about it in T1 manufacturing, gets more complex for T2 and further obviously-, âcornering a marketâ, etc.)
And, again, there was no learning difficulty in T1 manufacturing before. Now there is with the added complexity. There was no noticeable simplification of the lower âtiersâ of T1s.
Iâm not only talking as an industrialist here either. As a person who likes to fly ships, Iâm also quite bothered that the market is gonna be upturned entirely for changes that, if I can only approve of the stated intent, will not reach any of its stated goals.
Again.
Iâll stop even trying to reply to @Xuixien, this is either masterful trolling or lack of oxygenation at birth. Canât tell.
Youâre so focused on profit that youâre forgetting that industry can have other purposes too.
I do some industry but care little about profit. I usually turn A into B because B is easier to sell, use or move. Not because B is âmore profitableâ.
Try to split âindustryâ and âprofitâ, ignore the profit part for a moment and look only at what industry is really doing by itself: like you said, it allows players to turn A into B.
And this update allows new players to turn A into B more easily for the small T1 ships. Which was the point I was making.
When I set up my PI planets Iâm definitely ISK negative at the start as initial investment (Epithals, command centers, infrastructure and upgrades). When I start doing exploration I definitely need to learn not dying before I make a profit. And it took me a while as newbe to find my footing in null belt ratting as I lost more ships to rats and enemy players than I gained ISK. Eventually when I knew how to do those activities the ISK starts to come in.
It is really common that profits are a secundary (or even lower) priority when trying something new. I donât see why this is different for industry.
Thereâs no guarantee of a price drop vs the current price, no. But there is a guarantee of a price drop vs [the price to produce if material requirements on Destroyers remained unchanged]. 25% fewer mats is 25% fewer mats.
That doesnât track. As you said, for the PI : itâs initial investment. That ship you use for belt ratting is also initial investment, and for industry, thatâs the minerals and blueprints.
You dying in belts or explo sites is the risk of the activity, and yes you learn how to mitigate those. For industry, those risks are making a mistake in cost/sale calculations, forgetting to account for a tax, getting ganked while moving things, or simply the market shifting. This is already here.
As for your argument about turning A into B because B will sell better or is easier (thus cheaper) to move, thatâs exactly talking about profit Itâs not only about getting the most out of the initial investment, itâs also making the process more efficient (freight costs for instance) and keeping the money in motion. Itâs all nice and well to get 100% margin on an item, but if it takes 3 months to sell, youâd have gotten more out of that initial investment if the money had gone through 15 cycles of a 10% margin item in the same amount of time.
You canât dissociate industry - fundamentally an economical activity- from its economics.
yes, so ? As you just explained, itâs totally possible to do other activities without a profit.
I tried PI in HS and the sheer taxes made me negative . You keep dying so you are negative.
You LEARN to become positive. You just donât start positive.
You are asking for a special treatment for industry.
Actually YOU are âthings I haul are freeâ. Ease of transport is to be taken into account in your activity, just like time.
Yes, but now they can also produce stuff. Therefore they have more choices. So the industry is more complex, and at the same time more easy to get into.
This change is a good thing. Industry was too simple and too easy. Now players will have real fun gathering all the components to fabricate what they need and construct all kinds of ships.
Finally, CCP moving the right direction and EVE will benefit from happier players.
Youâve gone of the ledge my lad.
Itâs not only about getting the most out of the initial investment, itâs also making the process more efficient (freight costs for instance) and keeping the money in motion. Itâs all nice and well to get 100% margin on an item, but if it takes 3 months to sell, youâd have gotten more out of that initial investment if the money had gone through 15 cycles of a 10% margin item in the same amount of time.