A significant update to Industry

So basically:

“These changes are bad because they negatively impact my asocial playstyle.”?

Okay bro. There’s certain things you can’t do as a solo/small corp, and now there will be a few more things you can’t do solo/small corp. And this is fine. Player interaction fosters retention so overall this is a net gain for the game even if you dislike it and quit.

I framed my response as such, I didn’t frame it for any other group in EVE outside of small corps/solo players. As my conjecture in that respect would be useless, I also took two weeks to think about it and process it internally, my opinion is not kneejerk. Please tell me, how it is good for retention for players who have spent the last year or at least several months working towards something that is suddenly completely out of reach? Can you at least not agree that having skilled towards something that is now a waste of time, is not annoying? My analysis is not dripping with sadness and emotion, I am speaking calmly and unemotively about it.

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I already explained why it’s good for retention. Player interaction fosters retention. Making it so that players must interact with each other in larger groups to do an increasing set of activities means more interaction and thus more retention.

Learn how to get along with others.

I’m also not threatening to quit, ultimately this will probably mean I stop playing every day and return to another game and check in on EVE every few days for PI or something, but I won’t quit. We have just suffered a huge blow to SP, via these changes and the nature of SP makes this blow really feel personal (even though it obviously is not).

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I never said you were threatening to quit. But solo/small corp people (I get the impression of like, a 5-10 man group with an Athanor and a Raitaru in HiSec - anchored by a “holding corp” - who mostly don’t even talk to each other and definitely don’t use voice chat) leaving the game because of these changes isn’t a real loss, especially if the changes promote more group activity/cohesion which will ultimately increase overall player retention.

You can still log in and do your derpy small group stuff and talk to each other once every 2 hours, you just won’t be building carriers and that is probably perfectly okay.

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Yeah, the carriers themselves are no real loss, but the SP is, that’s the biggest downside of these massive changes is that time and SP have effectively been wasted and there is a sense of being robbed, if SP spent in the last 6 months to a year could be reassigned whenever a massive change happens, there would be nothing really for me to lament as I could switch into a completely different role, as such we’re just kind of figuring out what the hell just happened to our plans. It takes a very very long time to do anything effectively and efficiently in EVE as a result of SP. :grimacing: :thought_balloon:

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You mean Capital Construction III?

You could always extract it and sell it. Would probably make about the same ISK as selling a carrier if not more depending on how much you extract.

Hi Garlock, a very interesting and thoughtful post. I assume you are living in low or null sec to be building capitals for defence. As such, I must also assume that you have some form of logistics setup to extract products from where you live to markets for sale, and return with things you cannot produce yourself?

Surely this can be used to purchase the additional materials required to continue your build programmes? If not, and you have been thus far entirely self-reliant, then I must commend your choice of backwater, as living in such space without a larger group coming around and giving you a kicking for fun is hardly common…

I also feel you are looking only on the downside - as a small group in null, I’ve been considering various options for us to profit from these changes - we are expanding operations in a number of areas (don’t wanna give the game away, but it should be pretty evident where these sit) so we can keep up with our capital builds as well as profiting from the new industry meta (maybe).

Ultimately if this change pushes your group out of the game then that is sad to hear, but suggesting that there are fewer opportunities for small groups is, I feel, a negative approach that doesn’t really consider the options that have been made available.

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There are still ways to make money, that is true, we’re pretty self-reliant yes and largely are not doing what we do to sell things on the market, we rather have amassed a few structures that we were planning on deploying post-war when things look less murky. The negative is, the SP build up, if we knew the game could change so drastically (possibly the biggest change in 8-9 years) we might have been less specialized in our skilling. I do make some ISK doing things in Pochven and some exploration and mission running, these things have not been negatively affected, well unless I lose a faction battleship randomly in a mission post-change. I lost an Azbel in December in LS after the quantum cores update and since then I’ve been doing my industry NPC stations in LS. Thanks for your response Oskar, I’ll find something to do, I’m just mainly aggravated by the SP component of this change.
@Oskar_Milde

Thanks for you response, I appreciate it and I’m not so upset that I’ll leave, just feel a bit like my pocket is being plundered because if I am to now “reassign” this SP, it will cost me plex and offer less SP as I have crossed that SP threshold where returns have diminished considerably from extractors.
@Xuixien

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Bro it’s literally 1 level 3 skill, like seriously. Just stop.

“promote cohesion” and replies to me condescendingly, nice paradox “bro”. Take your sour attitude to whatever massive corp you’re obviously “happy” in. :roll_eyes:

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This is a meaningless and incorrect response. I said it would promote cohesion in the game, not that you and I would agree on the forums, nor that it would make me a nice person to interact with in EVE.

Out of curiosity, which skills that you’ve currently trained will no longer be needed in the new industry landscape?

If it’s a case of requiring new skills, well I think you’ll hardly find yourself alone on that front!

And as for change, well… I think you should find yourself so lucky that you’ve managed a solid 8-9 years without significant impact! Not exactly comforting words, I know, but Eve has always evolved and changed as things have developed. I know plenty that spent months grinding out iskies to get into carriers pre-DBS who felt exactly the same as you, only their skills and isk investments have proven not even remotely useful for the last 6 months - at least you will have the ability to work with either smaller ship construction, or final component level construction and generate an income while you acquire the missing skills - a great many players took the loss of their entire asset list and earning potential in one fell swoop, especially when combined with the mining changes as well.

Wish you all the best in your endeavours in any event, and chin up! You will find your knew groove far quicker than you expect, I feel.

At least this time around you have extractors…lemons into lemonades.

My indy heart was broken long ago when they had another big change. They did horrlble things to ME. Bad things, terrible things. Forget the skill name but this pita skill was you jsut suffer the train for the best me you could get. After the last change…this became a speed skill.

THey also removed old ME system with this crap 10 max system in play now. SOme bpo’s broke my heart really. I had them tweaked nice, real nice. Now they are just a crap 10.

My angle was ME not TE. A big job like a BS run job coming out the over 1 hour faster did nothing for me if it was now 1400 and not 1500 on a weekday. you see, I’d still be at work. I liked the old old way where you could play ME games. I’d sell lower because I had lower build costs on the scorpion for example.

Still have that crap skill in the indy char’s head. I may get some injectors again to speed up an alt. Last time it was useless rock skills on the miner that went. And this char’s xl missiles since at the time minmatar dreads were split guns/missile when I started the train.

Since they broke my indy spirit long ago I could lose some high end skills this go around. I really just need to make ammo at this point lol. Could not give a rat’s butt if it takes extra time.

clearly you have no clue what it would take to move a mining fleet , support it with pvp fleet and provide the logistics to move the ice to a place for compression. CCP clearly stated that they want to present more industrial targets for gankers and they are clueless about the effort it takes to move industrial fleets. its time to end this nonsense . Even if we mined that ice, we still need 3 other types to meet the needs of the new industy requirements. so they will still get their market transaction isk sink and still present hauler traffic to the gankers at the hubs. OR join a mega alliance and become mindless drones

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Oh bo hoo. You might have to take on a tiny amount of risk in a hauler. Cry me a river if that’s your threshold of risk.

its not about the tiny amount of risk. its about making industry a painful process that now requires multiple fuel blocks while CCP is starving our primary systems of ICE. its just stupid for no reason

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No it doesn’t, I have a lot of friends in Eve and it’s gotten to the point where I make alts so I can do stuff other than interact, the people I do want to talk to are in other time zones, and the ones I don’t want to talk to never ever shut up. I have a tiny corp of one so I don’t have to have a corp chat window up, don’t have to deal with other people’s standards, rules, or invasions of my privacy via that thing that let’s them look in my hangers. I like playing solo, and there’s not a dammed thing someone else’s idea of how I should play Eve is going to change that. It’s a “sandbox” I can do what ever I want unless CCP changes someth… Oh…
Right, I almost forgot.

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CCP’s analysis disagrees.

“You’re entire statement about a very general topic supported by empirical data is wrong because of my own anecdotal exception.”

You should be, and are, free to be asocial and play solo in your 1 man corp.

That’s not entirely true. Sandboxes have frames. Those frames are boundaries. They hold in the sand.

First of all CCP’s analysis is suspect, they lose far more players than they retain. And that’s just one tiny bit of it.
Second, I’m not asocial, I’m playing a videogame where the bulk of my interactions with other players is them trying to kill me. I’m not playing facebook in space.
As far as it goes what I said is a generalization, but one based on the people I do choose to interact with outside of the fighting side of things. With almost no exceptions the people I talk to are in either very small corporations or in the case of the ones who aren’t are off by them selves doing their own stuff most of the time. In not interested in sitting in a chatroom, there are other tools for that and have been for a very long time,float of them work better.
The only reason I keep any chat windows up when I’m in space is so I can see what’s happening in local chat, not for the conversation but for it’s tactical usefulness. Though it would be nice to be able to use it to kill spammers, that would be peachy.
The sandbox comment was obnoxious (on my part, not yours), Eve is not a sandbox and I’m not sure if ever was. It is nothing but the frame as near as I can tell. In the short time I have been playing I have watched a number of things get changed by CCP that forced people in some direction of another, in many cases right out of the game. Open Simulator, while not exactly a game is a sandbox, Eve is not. Telling people it is and that they can “do as they like” and then making rules and changes to prevent them from being able to do so removes the sandbox concept rather quickly, add to that the more recent “pay to advance” crap and it kills it completely.
The only asocial thing in Eve is CCP encouraging actual scumbags to scam new people, some of the scumbags are actually far more chatty than CCP themselves. You can even ask them questions about why they scammed you and get an answer.
I’ve been in larger corporations, I didn’t like being told what to do, what I could and couldn’t fly, where I could and couldn’t go and so on. I left in less than two months and never looked for another.
I’m not alone in this by any stretch of the imagination, there are a lot of people playing Eve who don’t want or need a crutch to do stuff and want to accomplish stuff on their own and not be carried by a bunch of other people. I just happen to be one of them.

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