And to think; All this tomfoolery really began years ago, when somebody thought it be a good idea to allow a certain mining command ship the ability to use powerful mining drones and out-mine a fleet all by itself.
2 Likes
Clever did.
This really. Why my hesitancy to be happy about this change.
Its like tiericide BS construction redo, Same meh BSââŚnow at higher cost. AgainâŚ
Making them cost moreâŚlets have them do more. Since my first fleet race was caldari Iâd be looking at rokh.
Since it seems current fleet meta doesnât even care about its sniping too muchâŚsame really as in the past Iâd more readily take higher price rohk if it got a damage bonus.
MOre money its time to make it worth it. Time to lose the range and get the damage. inb4 its a reskinned mega then. Donât care lol.
Not many people said omfgâŚthey have 5 rohks at 150+. Quick reform the fleet to counter them. They were more worried about the buttloads of megaâs, phoons, apocs, etc actually doing real damage.
Ok, and what is the issue with a battleship being complex to build?
Complexity for complexityâs sake is usually not a good thing. For those this intriguesâŚthey could build t2. Components, scoring good deals for moon goo for themâŚthere ya go. Complexity. I made blops long ago. I made it complex working angles for minerals, moon goo. Hell even went into partnership for the reactions with a guy I knew.
Especially when the catalysts for change was caps and higher. Make cap/mommie/titan builders and users suffer. BSâ were never a problem. lets keep em simple and kind of cheap. Tiericide already jacked up their prices years back.
2 Likes
But this is not complexity for complexities sake.
This complexity allows CCP to disassociate some ships prices from others. When it was all just base minerals, there was no way to break the links and separate prices, now there are more discrete price groups.
2 Likes
Welp, I just got my first Leshak blueprint from an abyssal since the changes. Previously a moment for celebration and a chance to use up some of the spare minerals Iâve been gathering since the last significant update and turn a decent profit.
But I see that in my region there arenât enough of the new components available on the market to build a single battleship. In fact, the entire trading volume for the last week wouldnât equal a fourth of one, and Iâm not in a deserted region. And even if I wanted to click 180 times to set up the planetary interaction, there is still the reactions to consider. And might I remind us all that abyssals were designed to be run solo. Does Eve believe that only lowsec PoS groups and above are entitled to battleships?
So, no, Iâm not feeling that my subcapital manufacturing process has been compartmentalized from the capital and supercapital ships; Iâm not feeling that my manufacturing progression is more robust and interesting, and Iâm not feeling that the subcap market has not been impacted significantly. But I am naturally feeling jerked around. At least with the mineral changes there were alternative sources, but not for thisd.
12 Likes
Applying this level of tedium to t1/faction sub cap production is a flat out mistake. I say tedium, instead of complexity, because thatâs exactly what it is. Its the same reason most people avoid t2 production. That reason being, because its a colossal pain in the ass. More than that, during pre-scarcity times buying the components not directly derived from minerals needed to produce a single t2 hull at market value had you overpaying for the hull by ~10% before you even accounted for the t1 hull, everything that went into the bpc, or your time. Thats if you could even get them, sometimes you have to buy the precursor materials and make what you need yourself. T1 production was always meant to be simple. That kind of shĂŹt belongs in t2. This is a mistake. Period.
9 Likes
Because you are wrong.
IMO itâs easier to build most subcap, with BS being harder as an entry to more complex production.
Sure if you cherry pick âonly BSâ then you deduce manufacturing is more complex. The reality is, itâs not.
try to do cap meta modules.
Or previous standup fighters.
You are wrong.
No, it is tedium instead of complexity.
Complexity done well is like in Factorio. Simple science bottles require only one or two steps; complex ones require multiple manufacturing processes and inputs, and eventually you deal with fluids, dealing with the same intermediate output being required for several intermediate inpuuts, belt capacity and inevitably (gulp) trains. But ultimately everything was made of copper, iron, coal and oil. The complexity came from how efficiently you used these basic inputs.
Here, there is only complex inputs for their own sake, making people play a boring clicky minigame and waiting for hours, and putting some components out of the reach of anyone without a lowsec refinery and their own moon, with no available substitutes.
Actually, BRB going to go play factorio for a bit insteadâŚ
6 Likes
Funny thing here is this the reason they redid t2 moon goo flows years. To break up pricing, change it up.
AndâŚnothing changed. The cheap moon goo became expensive. the expensive moon gooâŚstayed expensive. It wasnât component or ship makers. It was moon goo and reaction products costs. MY marginns on blops were not great when I made them. I wasnât saying ima charge 500 mil more because its a day ending in y.
And with t1 like t2 needing reactions is going to have an eternal and universal base cost to ALL BSâ. Structure ran a month. here are its fuel costs for the month. and lets not forgot the JF needs some fuel for several runs a month.
All thisâŚis now in the price of T1 BS. Reaction structure owners arenât charities. 8 billion in fuel usedâŚsomeone is paying for it over sales to end users.
And empire will simulate this. I mean if JF operators are tacking on 500 isk every unit of product for gasâŚtack on 400 even if no JF used. Why lose that 400 isk rightâŚ
3 Likes
Cap modules and structure fighters are not a phantasm. I didnt cherry pick bs, I included all faction subs. In factâŚ
Gosh, it seems like I said exactly what I meant and you just chose to make an irrelevant comparison.
Not the ones I build. Every last one got this bullshĂŹt added to it.
FĂšcking frigates require moon goo reactions products, gas, and pi. Get out of here with that shĂŹt. Perhaps you are unawareâŚ
And thatâs just the frigates. I mostly build and fly cruisers.
Perhaps you are also unaware of where those blueprints come from? You have to farm them either by lp or running specific ded sites in certain space and getting lucky. They come as 1 run copies btw. This is not something where you can shĂŹt out 30 copies and hoard pi/goo/gas mats to run them all at once. Each ship takes a whole build slot all by itself, where I could build 8 or 10 enyos in the same slot. There is no way to operate faction/pirate production like t2. It simply doesnât work that way. Again I say, this is tedium not complexity and it needs to go.
5 Likes
That is exactly my main reaction to this. It makes sense why CCP would add all this complexity and extra cost and sourcing of extra materials for capitals⌠but why lump BSes in with 'em. They want people to fly more BCs and down? maybe. but then why make BSes more fun (multiple patches in the past few years from increasing the warp speed back from 2 to 3 AUps, extra cargo, extra lock range, marauder buff in February, etc. etc.)âŚ
I guess they just want us to lose more expensive BSes the same way they want capital losses to be more expensive. to bleed the ISK (and/or the minerals/other components) out of the rich⌠and assuming that newbies/the poor only fly from frig to BC, I guess.
4 Likes
Its okayâŚthere is a weekly sale on plex going on. lol.
The confusing thing is they like, and kind of need the famed large battles. Its great free press for them even. The pr they donât even pay marketing people to do it. Gaming sites pop it for free.
And thisâŚcould be lessened. Lets watch a 500 on 500 drake fight. Thatâs an attention getter. I liked drakeâŚtill I flew it so damn much in the early days lol.
2 Likes
I built a ton of BSes with most of my trit a month or so ago in anticipation of this change (and to help some friends in game who wanted to make marauders)âŚ
But I sat on 4 gila BPCs. and I think I had enough trit left over to build 'em (but not a single BS more)⌠Iâm guessing this new crap is needed for those too, now. what happened to BC and below was going to be unaffected by these changes? just t1, apparently?
Well, itâs a game made by a European company and there are tons of European players, sure. But thereâs a lot⌠or there USED to be a lot of players during USTZ as well, when I started in 2013. A lot have left, it seems.
Yep⌠suddenly, BPCs are not so welcome as faction or deadspace mods as loot.
Similar to suddenly 8000 kernite doesnât seem like a fair L4 storyline mission trade for a mere +4 training/learning implant.
3 Likes
Tweak drop rates on bpcs and increase their lp cost in the respective lp store. You could even reduce pirate lp gains if you really wanted to be a shĂŹtler. Done. WithoutâŚ
Its like there was already a mechanic to manage exactly that. I wonder why they chose this path instead. It surely wasnât laziness as a few tweaks to an existing system would definitely be a lot easier to code.
Did yall fire the one guy that knew how to tweak drop rates of specific items or something?
2 Likes
Nobody builds navy ships, they are redeemed ready assembled from LP store.
What happens when you dont want your bnis in fw low sec? Or donât have a jf? You buy the bpcs for less, haul them out in a sub 2s ceptor and build them where you want them. Thats what.
*going forward it wonât make sense to build them, but is sure as â â â â used to.