A significant update to Industry

A few in this thread may benefit from reading " I, Pencil", by Leonard E. Read.


Will never understand. That was a good read.

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It’s not my opinion, but CCP’s. My opinion is that few things changed.

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How is the base ore (r4) ? became more attractive? :clown_face:

You’re very adamant about whatever position you’re spouting out and don’t wish to clarify it. I guess if you’re going to be this way, I shall assume I’m just talking to another run-of-the-mill forum troll.


I clarified it.
You insulted me.

Whatever u write here doesn’t matter .The world will keep going forward . CCP sees the results got all the data and everything is going smooth .Enough with the cry babe staff , if u don’t like the changes move on play another game .Scarcity worked everyone got low income ships went up in prices so , everybody is happy with the new healthy economy eco system . CCP doesn’t read your cry babe comments.Keep up the good work CCP just plexed my 10 accounts for the year.

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I think there’s a certain amount of perspective missing from some of the posts here. So let me try and summarise the changes in pretty broad terms.

Faction ships and battleships need an amount of new components that need reactions to produce, so people will need to either buy these in or move a jump or two into lowsex to run reactions.

Capitals need a lot more new things, but broadly the same situation as above.

Most but not all of the input materials for these new things were relatively underused in the economy, and before this change was announced were extremely cheap to buy.

Some of the new materials come from exploration drops making these potentially a lot more valuable. HS and WH seem to be the prime places to get these drops.

So, in totality, there may be a few new things you need to buy if you plan on making faction ships or battleships. There are also new ways of making money producing these intermediate products if you are brave enough to jump into lowsex.

The only people who will be unable to continue their existing gameplay are those who build exclusively faction ships or battleships, who want to produce their own materials and who refuse to jump into lowsex to do so.

For those that fall into that category, I do feel bad for you. But I’m sorry to say that you are a vanishingly small proportion of the playerbase, so I doubt your outcry will lead to significant change. Sorry!

We all know that rattati

From a certain point of view, sure.

Oversimplify much? I’m balls deep in curse right now, but I dont have moons. Which is the first barrier gotta drop a bunch of athanors, fuel them, and mine the ■■■■. Then I’d have to drop an azbel. I’d also have to recruit miners, and pay, as well as protect them. Not to mention the expensive ass azbel I now have to fit, fuel, and protect. Then I still have to farm up the bpcs, no this is far from just jumping a few gates. You have to put down roots, and that is bad. Its not just bad though, its restrictive and funnels all faction production to the very same groups that control the t2 market. Its exceedingly bad for everyone who isn’t a part of one of those groups. People that refuse to jump into lowsec don’t even know what we’re talking about. Btw cruiser and up bpc are only available in low/null except in 4/10 sites. So literally almost everyone holding a useless bpc right now has jumped a lowsec gate or two.


So lemme run a few options past you to remove these impossible barriers that you have thrown up around yourself, as you seem to be aiming for the hardest and most expensive possible solution here.

  1. Easy way. Buy the stuff you need, either from Jita/Perimeter or if you’ve got some sense through the various discord channels for doing so. Either the moon goo, or the finished products. Once the price settles, there will still be margin on builds from folks selling the products as no-one would build the prints if they can sell the products for a greater profit.

  2. Put an alt in a mass-recruiting null block like Horde, train it to specifically run reactions, then use the alliance contracts to buy the goos and export the products to your main.

  3. Speak to some like-minded capsuleers and form the Curse Construction Conglomerate, set up the moons and structures you need and hire in mercs to do the protection as needed.

  4. Move your whole operation out of Curse and into an area where you can more productively run your moons, if you can’t do that where you are at. Shallow null might be a good idea, though you’ll need to scout out the right little pocket. I know a potentially good one from days gone by, though I’ve not visited in some time so could be a bust.

  5. If farming up the prints is such a hassle, why bother? If this activity is no longer profitable, are there any others you could try instead?

Not sticking around any area that long, and don’t want to own, fuel, and defend structures. so no conglomerate for me. I’m definitely not paying mercs for defense, thats the only part of this whole suggestion that I do want to do myself.

Have you tried buying in products from market for t2 production? I have. It is consistently ~10% cheaper to just buy the hulls, even without accounting for the bpc you invented, the t1 hull, and your time spent hauling bullshìt around.

Getting the prints is easy, its just very time consuming. Nearly as much as say moon mining but vastly more active of a process. Thats the part that hasn’t changed and its still fine.

I, Pencil is a polemic about the importance of innovation and the risks of centralized control.

EVE players find themselves in a very different environment. There is no player driven innovation in Industry. All of the rules are firmly controlled by the game and there is no way to improve on tasks like making Fernite Carbide Armor Plate or new materials to avoid using Morphite. The game is fixed and set by the developers.

The only place for innovation is in the minor areas of supply chain logistics and material acquisition. Even there, innovation is limited. There is no way for players to invent a way to compress gas or moon ore, which would simplify tasks.

The game rewards the most organized and information rich, not the most innovative.


It also makes clear that no one person can make a pencil on their own, much less a T2 ship.

Nobody talking about t2 in here.
Were talking about pirate/faction. Which went from just minerals like it has been for 18 years to minerals, pi, goo reactions, and gas. Pencils I could make last week suddenly require exotic materials you need specific expensive infrastructure to obtain. But its the same pencil.

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Nope. It went from minerals to minerals + new items.
That those items needs PI, does not mean you need PI to do faction.
That’s the big mistake in your explanations.

Ok and?
That doesn’t mean anything. Change happens for various reasons in an MMO.
Deal with it.

Same argument applies

lol u are still here . just w8 and see the next patch that is going to drop … If u are so pissed with this one lol

Either I get it in those items, which contain pi, or I do the pi. Either way pi is a requirement when it previously wasn’t. The hull requires goo reactions, pi, and gas. Thats regardless of who is doing what portion of it. Perhaps you know a way to build items that require pi without the pi? You need pi to do faction builds even if it isn’t you thats doing it.

Yeah, it does. Why this? What problem is being addressed? Why does this solve it? I’ve asked these questions before and nobody has an answer other than “her der because ccp”. The stated goal was to reduce capital proliferation, but this clearly isn’t relevant to that in the least. So again I ask the same damn questions. I fully expect the same bullshìt answers.

It would, except that I could never build the t2 pencil by myself. I could do a lot of it, but buying just the stuff I couldn’t do ran the cost beyond market value for the hulls. In this case I could crank these pencils out all day. Now I can’t do it at all, and I didnt do anything to cause that.

Why don’t you share with the class then?

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I do have empathy for your position, yet also feel these changes, to make production more multi-layerd and require more inputs, is over all a good thing for the Eve economy.

Find a way to adapt and profit from it.

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