A simple fix for high-sec suicide ganking

Yes, there is a problem. I have a better fix for high-sec “ganking” . Concord’s response times are WAY to fast and there fleet is too OP. They should have to follow game mechanics like other NPC’s.

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Did you lose a ship, diddums ?

If you don’t put enough stuff in your freighter to plex 15 accounts then you won’t get ganked for it. More, less valuable trips means both that the risk is spread out and you are a less appealing target.

Getting ganked is not the problem. Being an idiot with a freighter is the problem.

■■■■ no. I make bank on selling new ships to people, including gank victims. Why should the whole economy suffer to protect fools from their own foolishness?

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In the current game, what would happen if the gank victim decides to jettison their cargo during the attack?

Does that work like jet can mining? The cannister sits there in space and can’t be looted (but can be destroyed)?

Perhaps the mechanic the OP wants to have introduced already exists. You just have to have the presence of mind to do it in time?

It bothers me because it’s an “infinite” protection against retaliation. I like to say if it bugs you that someone ganked you, by all means: form your own fleel and gank them back.

But you can’t do anything against a burner char. You’ll never know who that actual person was.

I don’t mind that they’re “subverting hi sec” and I wouldn’t mind if they were still able to do it somehow, but not via an anonymous burner.

Perhaps they could give hi sec ganking a good thing to balance the bad? Make jet cans possible to steal by having a high hacking skill? (Your hacking skill vs the jet can creator’s encryption skill?)

But also to address that: There is no such thing as a brand new player who has enough skill at the game to participate in suicide ganking. All suicide gankers are experienced players.

For all intents and purposes, nothing at all. A jetcan holds 27,000m3 - less than 1/10 of a freighter’s base hold and less than most expanded T1 haulers. So while it would work as you suggest, in practicality it’s just not feasible.

So some would like immunity / sanctuary and change our beloved environment from
bcce6574d04a95d24dbcaa812dedf0c0
to this Meanwhile-in-florida-146 ?!!

No effin way.

No fixes are needed, only education

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I’m not sure why you claim this. Every budding suicide ganker has to start somewhere. Ok, sure, I bet not many players come straight out of the tutorial and suddenly become successful sucide gankers, but I’ve seen plenty new players who get ganked, or see someone ganked, and get interested in the idea and want to try.

You can’t force anyone to undock in this game. Or login. Or login with a character you know.

Besides, plenty of suicide gankers use their “mains” and you know who they are, or gank in the same place and you can infer who they are. I guess only CCP knows how many players who suicide gank regularly change their characters to obfuscate who they are, rather than how many players make a dedicated character to try suicide ganking and then quickly give it up when they realize how difficult and how much work it is to do successfully and profitably.

You aren’t guaranteed revenge in this game. Sure, it would be better if there was more ways to get criminals to want to group up and make themselves a viable target for someone who wants revenge, but this idea ain’t it. It is just yet another nerf to highsec piracy.

You have all the tools you need in-game to solve it. So, solve it.

Hacking in exploration sites is a problem, too. People solve hacking problems every day.

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The only Problem I See in Highsec ganking is that there are too few incentives for gankers to stay in the Same character.
I Just cannot come Up with a proper solution to IT.

Lol. Most gankers keep the same character. You guys just want to imagine problems.

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*sigh

"in one of the many high sec areas where this is frequent".

Well OP, you have indeed identified a problem…but it’s not with whom you think it is…

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I don’t think their primary reason for doing it is to obfuscate who they are.

It’s because rebuilding your security status takes time. And it’s obvious they’re using 1 month subs when you see them in Gnosis.

Anyone who uses their main for suicide ganking would be totally unbothered by a skill requirement, so long as the requirement granted benefits to those to take it (enough to offset the liability for those who do not take it.)

The drops from a kill aren’t perfect, right? (I don’t know this for sure.) If you took the skill to 5, and maybe trained a bit into a tree, maybe you could claim nearly 100% of your drops. Your character is considered to be skilled at disabling ships without hitting their cargo.

Better yet: maybe they could create an option where a skilled ganker can just take out the ship’s warp drive or power supply, so it’s not destroyed. Just scuttled. Maybe steal the whole ship!

Or have an option where, at say 25% structure, the ship become vulnerable to hacking, and so the attacker can use a hacking module and eject its owner.

Think how cool that would be!!!

But the price would be that you need somewhere from 2 to 6 months continual sub (or skill injectors) in order to make any money off your ganks.

It would be nice to have some chance of it, though.

A throwaway alt means zero consequences.

Even if I have 13 alts I can choose from, if they’ve all got multiple months worth of omega SP, I still stand to lose SOMETHING if I go around suicide ganking with one.

But an alpha I’m subbing for one month, and then throw away stands nothing to lose no matter what they do.

You aren’t listening: there is no problem. You keep typing solutions, but there is no problem here.

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It doesn’t really. You can do it with tags instantly.

It seems like you are kinda filling in the blanks here with no evidence this is a thing. Real, professional gankers use Omega accounts so they can multibox, and it is almost always cheaper to repair sec status with Clone Soldier tags than to re-train a character.

I really think these 1-month old Gnosis gankers you claim seeing everywhere are just regular players, maybe some with other mains, experimenting with suicide ganking on an Alpha account. I really see no evidence the majority are run by a handful of people or even if they were, that this is a problem. They are just playing as a pirate, imposing some small amount of risk from their underpowered single ganking character, and creating content/stimulating the economy. They are vulnerable while logged in and can be shot, just like everyone else.

There is no fix for this as long as you don’t have infrastructure in space and CCP allows you to have multiple characters. You can always avoid future “consequences” by just not playing the game anymore. This is the same when some dude ganks you in a wormhole, or blobs you in a FW site, or kills you in one of those new arenas. It’s just the game.

Putting a core and intended activity like piracy behind a skill wall makes no sense. How can new players learn to pirate or see if they like pirating if you make them wait 6 months to do it? If alpha highsec gankers are really a problem, it makes more sense to lock their safeties to red and make them at least commit a PLEX to the character/account than to make a part of the game impossible to do.

But I see no evidence there is any problem her whatever, at least specifically related to highsec crime. It’s just the same as every other random PvP encounter in this game.

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@Zozoll_Neblyn the Gnosis isn’t even a preferred hull to go suicide ganking in. Scouring the killboards I found a suicide gank against a Mackinaw where the gank fleet had two Gnosis involved. One of those was a definite Omega fit. The gank was purely for the salt/keks and not for profit. I challenge you to show me that Gnosis has become a primary ganking ship choice.

You’re only providing conjecture and not actual evidence. It’s clear you don’t understand how easy it is to repair sec status, not to mention that gankers can hang around high sec at -10 sec status. I’ve seen this with long-time gankers. One guy, Aaaarrgg, I would chase around Niarja (on an alt of mine) as he would warp from gate-to-gate looking for targets of opportunity to gank. He’s often in a permaflashy state. He current is -10 and is operating in and around Jita. Saw him in local the other day in criminal status so he obviously is continuing to gank.

I have built up quite a portfolio of intel on gankers and ganking corps. I watch and observe their tactics, and I believe I have had some impact on how they’d operate. I have made quite a lot of ISK grabbing drops from their wrecks. Initially it was quite easy, then they started to get annoyed with me and would often try and gank me at the same time as they’d hit their freighter/Orca target, and at least twice they deliberately just ganked me just to gank me. They then started to take steps to recover the mods that would drop from their own wrecks.

I even had some great fun with in 1 v 2s where two of them in Catalysts would try and gank me in my Coercer. They wanted to get me.

On that character I have made tons of ISK (billions) and had some good content. Lately it seems that ganking activity is on the decline some, but there could be a lot of reasons for that.

You might want to check out the twitch videos and the interview done with Jason Kusion (and alts). It’s quite impressive on how he operates. Yes, he multiboxes and so he has to use Omega accounts just for that. He’s well-known, and ends up getting several threads posted up “complaining” that he’s doing illegal/ban-worthy stuff. You know how many times there must have been reports and tickets sent in on this guy? I’ve watched him “grow” from about 8 accounts in his own corp, and then having that corp join CODE., and lately he’s been in Goonswarm. He still ganks in the same old spot.

In summary, get educated at least on what’s really happening. You’re making arguments based on feels and not facts. And there is no problem to solve here. EVE is a sandbox and in that sandbox you can do what you want, and that includes suicide ganking, on Alphas or Omegas. And as an Alpha they can only be on the one account. The “professional” gankers overall tend to use Omega accounts.

No it does not.
CCP literally said that your interpretation is wrong as correlation is not causation.

Also learn the survivor bias.

Yes you can.
Not “undock now”. But you can force people to farm, and so make themselves potential targets, between ganks. That’s what the ss system does. Too bad it’s nerfed by the presence of tags.

here is my sheet for aggresion cost : at most it’s 15.1M per aggression in a 1.0 system against 5.0 target. Please tell me if there is an error.

It means that if you’re concerned with your ss you can just pay 15.1M at most per aggression and not care about it. When a talos fit costs 110M it’s just not a problem.
And if you’re not concerned with your ss, then it’s not an issue anyhow.

Here is my fix for suicide ganking :

  • remove tags
  • prevent people with a too low ss from docking or being tether in HS (limit with system sec status, so -5 can’t dock anywhere, -2 can’t dock only in 1.0 systems). Also can’t board a ship.
  • if someone can’t dock in his clone because his ss is too low, then he respawns in LS, in the closest system with a clone station, randomly chosen in the system.
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To keep the thread “balanced” I will throw in another simple fix for high-sec suicide ganking.

Introduce environmental effects in ice and asteroid belts, ones that reduce resists proportional to ship signature.

We’ve all seen the locust swarms of orcas, which are near ungankable as a group, or solo in the hands of a competent pilot. Getting rid of this unbalance, without nerfing the ship itself, should make ganking greater again, not like Hulkageddon in a distant past, but still great enough. Yep, I’m more than half serious this time.

They are not.
They can be ganked like any other target.
They are more expensive to gank, which is justified by the fact that they are more expensive themselves. You can’t reasonnably expect a 700M ship to be as squishy as a 20M one.

Also, FTIW, gank comes from “gang kill”, it’s difficult to “gang kill” as a solo pilot.

You’re still wrong about this. It’s not about the correlation ship loss to player longevity. It’s that in attempting to find evidence that ganking is driving player loss they’ve found nothing, repeatedly.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Buuuuuuuuuut in this case I trust CCP has done a comprehensive enough analysis to determine suicide ganking has not driven new players away, and I think it is safe to say the most (certainly not all) of players that do in fact rage quit are the demographic that those choose not to learn and adapt, or who simply aren’t smart enough for EVE, or expect EVE to be something it isn’t (a PVE-only wonderland), etc.

I’m concerned about the high-potential players, though, that end up rage quitting. If they rage quit, it’s probably not because they were ganked, it’s probably because they were psychologically griefed, though if they did lose all their assets in a hauler that would probably be enough to set them off as well.