A solution to Nullsec mining problems

Yes, most my focus has been optimizing your lifespan :slight_smile: I think if I dump something I can get your pg in the right place and we can maximize your missiles at the expense of drones and save a rig…hold on.

I don’t know what any of these mean. These are just words. How are you going to “maximize missiles at the expense of drones”?

If I could have stuffed in another ballistic you’d more than compensate for the drones and you could do ewar drones instead.

Doesn’t matter: I think I’m settling on toward this.

Justification
The nearly +20,000EHP more than offsets the loss of 10800 hp over the charges of your nanites. However, saving the PG (Powergrid) meant you should be able to dump that Current Router?

Adding the nano rigs makes up a significant difference of that 10,800 hp over 8 cycles anyway. In the old build ~215hp/s drops to ~122hp/s which is unsustainable if your fight lasts 108 seconds. But at 7,500 raw hp and less resistance.

In new build this goes from ~159hp/s to 59hp/s but across 13,500hp and slightly higher res. You had to sacrifice the resistance in that IFF damage control cuz of the CPU.

If life span is your concern, the EHP on this alone should put you closer to that 51,000hp raw you took with your rep build? (from the killboard).

Not including the rep power you still retain.

So go with the T2 missiles and do 400+dps. They are cheaper too?

[Typhoon, *Scoots Choco’s Typhoon]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer

500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Faint Scoped Warp Disruptor
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Heavy Stasis Grappler II

Heavy Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II

Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I

Warrior II x5
Ogre II x4

Cap Booster 3200 x2
Nanite Repair Paste x384
Inferno Fury Cruise Missile x325
Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile x324

Also, sorry that took a while, but you’re build is pretty ■■■■■■■ tight, so there was very little room to find where optimization could be had.

I think I managed to find it though. Should work out the way the justification suggests.

Longer life span offsetting the raw rep power, you’re not worried about alpha, and what killed you anyway was the cycles from that ikitursa?

I’m assuming he killed you with his disintegration ray and not his hammerheads :wink:

Ok, let’s get some things sorted.

Your fit is it exact same on DPS, since you don’t actually change anything. In fact, going with your recommendation for T2 Missiles, you do LESS DPS because your application become horrible.

Your fit replaces a one of the reps for a plate. Making it even more susceptible to “breaking” in 8 cycles.

So your fit, requires the pilot to replace a EG-601 (800,000 ISK) for an EG-602 (6,000,000 ISK).
image

And… in exchange I get like 2% more resists.

How did you know it was “suboptimal” then?

But… why didn’t you ever ask me what my purpose with this ship was? Did you just come up with your own justification and tweaked my fit to suit your own justifications?

It wasn’t, but you should already know that, right?

Again, it wasn’t, but you should already know that, right? :wink:

It’s going to break anyway. It’s more optimal during the cycle time. You’re basically dead after that either way.

This might be an oversight, it SHOULD be less in PG based on the numbers it showed me. One sec.

Going to break against what?

Surely someone who claims to know a lot about PvP should already know this. Just saying “Well, you’d be dead anyway” doesn’t help anyone.

No I mean you’re literally dead anyway after the nanites need to reload, with either fit. So we don’t need to consider past that point :slight_smile:

BTW mine says the PGs are lower for the build I sent you, not sure if that’s just a problem with the in-game fitting tool, which sucks. So I’m told

You might need to deactivate and reactivate a module to get an accurate number.

I didn’t consider the neut, but I’m not sure how much it’s helping you. It’s on the fence. You can probably use it to escape, but have you had luck in that?

That’s wrong though. You can still run Reps after the Nanite paste runs out. But you knew that already, right?

Told by whom?

You know what the purpose of this neut is though, right? I’m surprised you didn’t consider it, given how important it is on many battleship fits for the purpose that I’m looking for…

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Anything that does more than 122dps. Which is almost everything in that ship class. Correction, anything that does more than 122dps factoring your resistances.

So what you want is longevity, not a solid repair-wall.

The build I gave you is longer living, even if its repair-wall is inevitably weaker.

If you swap for the T2 missiles you’ll do more dps, but I think that’s a cop-out anyway, I couldn’t improve your dps except by gaining tiers.

What ship class are we talking about?

I’m not sure what you mean by this. They’re the same…?

If the rep is weaker, then you’re even worse off…??

So… when you said my fit was “Weak on DPS”, what did you mean by that?

And you’re still avoiding the big problem of application. Yes, on paper it says a bigger number. But when you actually fight, you’ll find out that you cannot apply that DPS, meaning you’ll do less.

But you knew that, right?

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To me a repair-wall means your tank won’t break to a solo-dps of a ship in the same class. I mean there are always some outlyers like catalyst does 600damage alpha…for instance. Way above a ship in its class.

at first glance it’s subpar, but you’re not using T2. So it’s probable that you just didn’t train to use T2 missiles, I don’t think that 80km is helping you though.

It’s a cop out to say go from higher meta to higher tech, though. So I rescind that statement. It’s on-par with the class of missile.

I couldn’t cram in another ballistics and I just don’t think the drones are worth anything. I almost considered dumping the dps drones in favor of web just to free up a med slot.

I decided against the SW-drone though because I don’t think they’d catch anything you’re worried about at range. Like a garmur. So the drones are just dead weight at-range, but good for adding dps someone you got webbed. So you’re real strong under 10km, but much weaker at range. And I couldn’t justify fixing that.

You might blow someone away at range, but ranged tacklers, doubtful…

Again not if your total HP is higher.

Because it’s about reps over time…how long you live determines how long you CAN rep, which determines how much HP you add in total.

Your reps got you to 51k raw HP on the killboard, a decent feat. I think you could do a little better in the same fight with this fit. Probably closer to 59k HP raw.

Ok, so all I got from this.

You just took my fit, made it worse. Swapped out one rep for a plate, and claimed it was better. Now I need to use an even more expensive implant.

You claimed my fit was weak on DPS, but couldn’t improve it anymore yourself. You still haven’t given me a number that I should be aiming for, btw.

And when questioned about the reps, you just brush it aside going, “Yeah, well you’re dead anyway”. As if that’s helpful.

And most importantly. You still have not asked me what the purpose of the fit is, the number one most important question to ask before changing a fit.

If you don’t know what I plan to do with the fit, how can you say your changes make it better?

I hope everyone here learns a thing or two. Alistair doesn’t know what he’s talking about. When faced with an actual specific thing (like trying to improve my fit) the best he’ll do is swap out things to make it worse while spewing nonesense like:

and

While fantastically failing to do either of this.

In addition, he’ll come up with weird phrases that aren’t used by the majority of players like

which only serves to confuse people as he comes up with his own terminology and his own definitions.

And he often gets specific terms like this wrong, mixing Alpha and DPS around without knowing that they both have specific definitions.

Here’s another quote from him that showcase his lack of knowledge. He should have known that a pilot using T2 Cruise Missile Launchers would also have access to T2 Missiles because they use the same skill. But he doesn’t actually know that, and doesn’t want to know, which is why he’s so confident saying this (and being wrong).

Comments like this are more indicative of lack of experience and knowledge. Most experienced PvP players will NEVER use a Stasis Webifiying Drone (SW series), because they are BAD. Making this suggestion of “drop DPS drones and use Web drones” _for the purpose of a Mid slot is so incredibly bad.

For as much PvP he claims to know, he seems to have forgotten that web drones suffer from Stacking penalties, meaning that they’ll never get to the stasis web effectiveness of a module in the mid slot at the loss of a little over 100 DPS after losing the drones.

Yet more statements that showcase the lack of experience. The reason why the original fit came with Warrior IIs is specifically for the purpose of chasing off tackle. He doesn’t realize that even unbonused Warrior IIs can be enough to chase off squishy Garmurs.

And of course, don’t forget the contradictory statements.

TL:DR: Alistair doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He thinks just saying things on a forum makes it true, but it doesn’t, because a lot of EVE Online requires actual experience.

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No you don’t, I’m looking right at it, the PG is less. So either you’re being dishonest or you’re trusting the in-game fitting tool, which should show you the same thing I see.

This isn’t a contradictory statement. You can make kills at range, but you’re not going to kill what matters. Garmurs and Lachs.

I mean…what do you guys even fight out in Null? Anything? Or all those warp bubbles gone to your brain?

You have two webs at 10km, and you can offset the 55% of the second web sufficiently with 2 SW-900, preserving most of your drone DPS, and freeing a Medium slot.

Not sure what you think is “bad” about that.

You aren’t webbing anyone past 11km bub…that’s bad.

Considering you move at a snail’s pace.