Abandoned/Low Power citadels (Dmg Cap)

[Zockhandra]

TLDR:
Please introduce un-capped abandoned structure damage limits.
Reason: If they can’t be bothered to fuel or protect it - They shouldn’t get any reaction time for when i kill it

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I’ve been playing around with low-power citadels for a while now. The last change to reducing low-power structures HP and capabilities was a boon to be sure. However the dps cap on abandoned structures is a pretty big limiting factor still.

EVE has always been about risk v reward, you chosing to save that miner might benefit you, it might not. You took the chance and you found out.
If a large entity is overstretched, and forget about citadels, it makes sense to apply more pressure when defending poorly fuelled citadels. Stupidity and inaction after all do not make for interesting sandbox gameplay. But how might this situation pan out currently?

For instance; Lets take a character called “Jimmy”,

Jimmy ladies and gentlemen, is an idiot. He’s currently ratting out of range of his umbrella, He’s not fuelled his structures in months and his pos is just about the only real safe place he can rely on. Enter our filthy pirate “Todd”.
Todd is pretty sure that because Jimmy has made poor life choices, that he can capitalise on this mistake and ruin Jimmy’s operation for his own gosh darn gain. But there’s a catch!

You see, even though Jimmy is an idiot. Even an idiot can warp to a structure and be immediately more difficult to catch.

Todd is pretty certain that at 01:00 hours, he can kill Jimmy’s citadels while his alliance sleeps. But when he tries to the one reinforcement timer and damage cap provides plenty of chances for Jimmy’s smarter friends to realise and come and help.

Poor Todd in his Nano-niddy spent all this effort coming out to hunt and cause chaos, and it turns out even the well known idiot “Jimmy” can evade this despite making every mistake possible.

Jimmy carried on ratting safely until one night he dc’d and died to inner hel without a word. He bought another ratting ship the next day and didn’t even blink.

Todd went on to make do killing afk Gilas and eventually died in a glorious (if kill-short) blaze of glory.

Wonder what would happen is Todd had the chance to blap those citadels while Jimmy was asleep after he forgot to fuel them for a week. Maybe todd would have lost his carrier, maybe he’d have dealt a big blow to a vulnerable enemy. We don’t know though, because in a world where defence has the advantage, we still give DPS mitigation to structures that don’t deserve it.

[Do_Little]

You’re assuming that the damage cap is an attribute that can be adjusted depending on the “state” of the structure. It could well be that the damage cap is an attribute of the hull and any change would apply to all states. This could require major surgery to change - not worth the effort.

A handful of FOB frigates are quite capable of hitting the damage cap on my Raitaru and even managed to reinforce it once last year. I don’t think this is too high a bar!

[Zockhandra]

Your technical reference is a fair and valid point, and if that is the case I would (irritably) accept that fate. But having game development experience myself, that would seem unlikely. (purely speculation)

Again, even having a handful of frigates 25m+ to kill a structure thats potentially under umbrella before the defenders can respond in nullsec makes a successful kill unlikely. I agree that the lack of REF timers may drastically improve and resolve situations in low-sec and high-sec. But if this feature is to be used in active nullsec wars to any effect, losing that damage cap can make fleets a much more digetic and friendly experience during the war overall. Do you agree? @Do_Little

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

I thought Forsaken Fortress removes the reinforcement timer on abandoned structures? You have to wait for it to be 7 days in low power before it will flip to abandoned state, then the ability to trigger reinforcement timers goes away. Then all you have is the DPS cap, which I don’t really see as a problem at that point.

It also sets a very clear difference between low power and abandoned, so you’ll need to be clear in terminology on which state a structure is in.

(I don’t fly on Sisi and have no idea if FF is deployed there right now.)

Edit for clarity because I incorrectly conflated damage cap and reinforcement timers.

[Zockhandra]

It may not end up being an issue (we will see i guess).

But i dislike the idea of any structure that is for all purposes a dumped heap of scrap. Getting any kind of defensive bonus when its not been cared for properly.

If im going to take the risk of going behind enemy lines and assasinating enemy citadels that are unused, un-fuelled and forgotten. Why should they have any additional time to react at all? Surely it would be healthier for the population of citadels to be more dynamic and swift, more structures dying = faster balance of production vs demand after all.

Atleast with pos’s if the owner made the mistake of not stronting the tower, the assets inside were vulnerable to swift nukings. Why not the same with citadels?

Otherwise, i agree with you entirely

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

They’ll also lose the option to tether when it is in abandoned state, so people will have to actively manage their structures at least weekly to gain benefit from them, so I think between those changes it should be a lot better overall - I give it 2 months before all old abandoned structures are gone and people become super careful with fuel supplies.

[Do_Little]

An abandoned structure has no shields or armor but it still takes 30 minutes to chew through the structure because of the damage cap. The question is whether this is reasonable. For the initial iteration I believe it is - the announced change is already massive and CCP should keep something in reserve in case they need to iterate. Let the data determine if additional changes are needed.

I expect we’ll see further changes to capitals and supers as CCP works toward a rock-paper-scissors meta - they should become less oppressive. I also consider it unlikely that you’ll find any abandoned structures in places where there is an umbrella - the bloc will take them down themselves!