Sure, I’m just part of the team that organizes a major NullSec indu hub, no problem.
Happy to take advice from a clueless HighSec dude, your input so far was totally helpful. Especially the part that those hubs don’t exist …
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lol.
And still you don’t understand how system index works.
Please explain, I’m all ears.
Of course the system index will go up if a bunch of people centralize. The point isn’t to be cheaper than Jita, it’s to be closer than Jita. But my original question was supposed to be more where not how.
Does not change a thing. If you want to have a system or a group of system, with mass production, having all of them in the same system makes no sense.
That’s why industrial hubs make no sense - unless people are too bad to know how the game works.
If you want to beat Jita, that’s hard. Especially if you want to set up a hub which will produce to sell in Jita.
OTOH, if you want to set up a hub which sells locally, you will need something like what I proposed before this thread got hijacked. Basically a decent production infrastructure plus a market which is stocked with the required production materials.
The materials are actually the hard work, because you will need to do lots of runs to Jita and stock the market, and have some tools in place to detect stuff which will run out soon.
Edit: Typo
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Yes because that’s stupid. The cost of moving the stuff to Jita will make it cost more than producing it near Jita.
And of course the same issue : if you are successful you will have higher taxes and thus will be less interesting than near Jita.
Those tools are already required if you are an industrialist. Those tools are the logical part of the indus. The ingame part is their stock of BPOs, which value should be in T in order to have a correct industry base. I mean at least a T of base 0/0 value BPO, all researched to 10/20.
You can’t provide enough ships if you have only one of each BS bpo. You will need like 5 of each, all to 10/20. Same for BC. 10 of each cruiser.
And then all ammos, all modules.
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Sigh!
We are talking here about how to run an indu hub, not about how to be an industrialist who uses the facilities provided by this hub.
Could you please shut up if you can’t provide anything valuable to this topic?
If there is no industrialist, there is no industry, retard.
If the industrialists already have their own value in BPO, what do you actually provide them that they don’t already know how to get ?
You are talking about BS. That thing you are talking about does not exist, and can’t exist because of the game mechanisms.
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Yeah, could you please elaborate on this?
No. You do not get to decide on the definition of words, this is the definition of Industrialist: a person involved in the ownership and management of industry.
Pot meet kettle… jeez 
Cypr3ss.
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Even better industrialist realizes that prices of materials are pretty much always jita sell + courier contract. It is better to focus on what to make instead of focusing on where to source cheapest materials from. Many things, especially in T2 market, are at 30-50% profit margin when sold to buy orders, assuming you buy inputs from jita sell.
You really have no clue. Hek system cost index is 5+% and rising… on pretty much all indexes applicable to hisec - and over half of that is just me. That is to say: you need only 2-3 ‘bigger’ industrialists to push system cost index to the point where other people will have to look for different system… hell, I am already wondering if I am not better off setting up extra citadel somewhere just to let system cost index lower a bit. 5% may not sound like much but on billions manufactured each day it is more than cost of fuel… savings from system cost index would take 2 weeks top to pay off new citadel, rigs included.
I disagree. If your manufacture is in billions each day then system cost index savings can easily make it cheaper to use courier contracts. Of course OP is not at that scale, otherwise he wouldn’t be asking that question.
From my experience for BS and BC 1 bpo may be enough (especially if you make some copies)… but for cruisers at least 2 are needed, destroyers are between 1-10 (1 is dragoon, 10 is catalyst), frigates multiple of each… lets not talk about modules and ESPECIALLY ammo… either way your point stands: it is not a matter of having single bpo of everything, many bpos of everything are needed. And for T2 also dozens of bpcs of basically everything…
How to run indu hub: anchor athanor with t2 rigs, fit it properly, fuel it. Anchor raitaru with rigs for science jobs (time!). If you have isk then anchor sotiyo instead: rig it for science and whatever else you want to do. T1 rig is good enough, for science jobs TE is king, for everything else ME is king. Of course fuel it.
Sourcing input materials is reponsibility of industrialists themselves, unless you are capable of providing hundreds of millions to billions units of minerals every day at a price competitive with jita sell.
As was said already industrial hub is stupid idea… but you can make some good providing science hub in area that has loads of manufacture performed but doesn’t have public science citadel. For science jobs (invention, research, copy) time is of greatest essence. Beware though - science taxes are a pittance.
It’s irrelevant.
If an item has a very high volume compared to its value, then moving it by JF will be much more expensive than moving it by freighter on a small distance.
Then whether your cost index is 2% or 1.5% does not really matter.
For example, T1 haulers (betower, etc.) or BS(typhoon, etc.)
Why do you need it moved by JF? That only makes sense if hub is in low sec/null sec - and unless you are building caps or structures (thukker rigs) it makes no sense at all to setup industry there. As for your system cost index of 2%… sorry, but most systems ‘near’ jita are at 5% system cost index. If you decide to do larger scale manufacture there it will quickly bump it to 7%+.
the rigs that reduce the cost of production, and the time (therefore the cost) are much more effective in low/null than in HS.
define “near”. lowest index close to jita for a distance :
- 1 : 5.8
- 2 : 2.6
- 3 : 0.9
- 4 : 1.04
Anyhow this changes nothing : if your distance increases, the cost of moving it increases, if the volume is too high then the total cost of your item will increase more than the reduction of cost index will make it decrease.
By JF or not.
Sure, from 1% reduction to 2% reduction - at the price of having to use jf. Or occasionally losing something of real value. Benefit is marginal… and if you fit T2 rigs you better have firepower to fend off lowseccers.
As I wrote, it’s irrelevant.
The point is, that distance = cost.
Which is literally what my original post was about :
right now if I look in HS, the lowest cost index is 8 jumps from jita. THAT is still “near Jita” - and it’s the lowest because weird reason, actually a lot of systems have the same and it’s completely irrelevant weither you are at 0.01 or 0.009.
If I look at systems with a factory station and lower than 1% index, there are 3 that are ≤ 8 jumps from jita.
Maybe “industrial hub” was too much of a loaded term, and not really what I actually meant. Really this probably should’ve been in the market section.
For example, take Derelik and Tash-Murkon. I don’t personally know anyone set up in those regions, but based on the March economic report:
Tash-Murkon:
- Negative trade balance, importing more than it exports
- 782b mined
- 1667b produced (probably where the imports went)
- 3198b local trade
- All this combined gives me the impression there’s a healthy local market, but maybe lacking in refinery facilities. People in this region shop local, and there’s a market for importers.
Derelik:
- Positive trade balance, exporting more than it imports
- 609b mined
- 839b produced
- 1459b local trade
- My conclusion is that given mining and production are reasonably close, with low imports: facilities and industry corps are established here but the local market is lacking so those goods get exported.
I was seeking guidance on where to set up shop to help balance out one of these regions (in either direction). Because I have no real connections or knowledge of what life is like out there, I wanted feedback about people’s local regions. Where do you bring your goods for sale? If there was a place closer than Jita, would you stop there instead?
Again, this is not about me personally, it’s about forming a community. The target market is solo players, or small corps. Not specifically industry hardcores, but like a starter zone for people who want to dabble.
I’m not articulating very well, but hopefully that makes some sense.