It makes more sense if you think of it more as, ah, forcibly providing an opportunity for redemption and restoration to God’s grace, Ms. Vess.
The Amarr belief in that concept-- that people can be redeemed-- is a lot of why I stay here, even if I can’t believe in their god, myself.
I would assume that the current rules and customs for slavery would apply for those taken from the pirate nations should any of this come to fruition. In essence, it is a incentive for those who would like to carry on the old form of the Reclaiming to get on board with peace with the Republic. The pirate nations are not protected by CONCORD, and thus it would not interfere with the current order of things if the Empire focused slaving efforts on them instead.
Besides, it is difficult to argue that Cartel slavers, Serpentis drug dealers, and Gurista raiders don’t deserve it.
I’m assuming this would only be for those caught in our respective nations? I just don’t see what this would offer other nations, namely the State and the federation. As far as they are concerned I’m more than happy with simply shooting Cartel members where they stand. Anything less your too merciful. If you feel some need to rehabilitate them I would see it as a naive notion but not something I can say I oppose. Blooders and Sansha as well if you wish. As far as my faith in them “seeing the light” as your people say? Why spare the bullet?
I think I’m seeing it in a totally different light. Please don’t mind my confusion.
To be honest, I don’t really care what the Empire does with criminals that it catches within its borders. If they want to enslave them, it’s hard to see the difference between slavery and a lifetime of incarceration and hard labour.
I mean actually invading the territory they hold. Curse, Delve and Stain would be the areas most obvious for that, though I can’t anticipate we would take many slaves from Delve and Stain, while the Cartel has an… interesting relationship with the Empire. Venal and Serpentis holdings are unfortunately quite far from us, but with help from the State and Federation, expeditionary forces could be launched.
Just an interesting thought I had. Seems a worthy challenge for the more belligerent voices within the Empire.
If it means killing them off or heh, saving their souls, I would go as far as to lead a fleet myself with your own to rid humanity of them.
couldn’t agree more, as long as they’re actually criminals.
Isn’t it just basically the same, but under a different name and with religious motivation?
I think the only defining difference is the implication with slavery that the persons offspring will be enslaved as well. Is that wrong? Morally yes. If i had my way they wouldn’t live long enough to have kids so I dont really have a hound in this race honestly.
I suppose it would depend upon the terms of their confinement. Prisoners sentenced to a life of hard labour would generally be incorrigible types incapable of reform, so almost anything could be done to them - up to and including TCMC installation.
It’s adorable that people think a system including slavery wouldn’t immediately be corrupt and broken until everyone is a potential “incorrigible type” in need of life-long slavery. Hell, there’s parts of the nations that do not subscribe to it that nonetheless use their correctional services as a slave force and provide justices incentive to be “hard on crime”.
There is no way to make slavery palatable. It is irrevocably corrupt to begin with, and you can’t build something that isn’t corrupt around it, because even with the grandest of intentions, it taints and corrupts them until it becomes something atrocious like every single practitioner of it in New Eden is an example of.
I think you might have taken a wrong turn when you conflate life sentence imprisonment for criminal acts and slavery - especially in an argument that says anyone who is a slave holder is massively corrupt. The logical extension of that argument is that any society that follows the rule of law is a corrupt enslaver of their own people.
The difference between a life of penal servitude and a life as a slave is that the prisoner is found guilty of an offence by a court or tribunal.
In the State, this sort of sentence is seen as redeeming someone who was a drain on the collective resources of the community by providing them with an opportunity to give back to that community through their labour. This opportunity is enforced because the individual has already demonstrated character defects that prevent them from embracing those sorts of life choices, preferring criminal behaviour.
And every system of slavery known to man has quickly devolved into finding all manner of justification for it. One of them for instance is “Oh, they’re not me, so fair game.” You can’t build a justice system around slavery and have even the slightest hope of it remaining a justice system. You can’t even make a justice system centered around profit without it turning massively corrupt. This has been the case in pretty much all of human history.
I’m not conflating the two, I’m demonstrating how even the lesser of those two evils is an inevitably corrupted and broken system, and trying to redeem the worst of the two by trying to build a justice system around it would lead to nothing but another broken system.
There’s simply no way to make slavery work in civilized nations. It will, without fail, be corrupt. The only reasonable stance then, is zero tolerance for the practice.
I certainly wouldn’t care to see it implemented in the State, I agree. We’ve never seen the need for it before and there are a litany of arguments against ever tolerating it in any official capacity.
But the Empire claims to see a need for it and, as a rule, we try not to interfere with the internal matters of others. I daresay I could make a long list of what I see as being wrong about any of the other cultures in New Eden - including my own - but people do kick so against the idea of being ‘improved’.
This idea was at the heart of my suggestion for resolving the contention over this issue - not to argue about the existence or terms of slavery, but rather to come to an accommodation as to the slaves that the Republic has a claim to. That way an agreement could be fashioned to return to the Republic those people it claims as its own, and leave the Empire to their self-regulation.
Which is all well and good, but ignores how an Empire still practicing slavery - especially offensively outside of their borders - would remain an outright existential threat to all of our nations. This just can’t be ignored.
Let me just point out that the Gallente are committed to the idea of bringing the State down, openly. The Minmatar aren’t so committed but are fully willing to participate in it, so long as the alliance against the Amarr holds true.
The Amarr aren’t the only existential threat to the State. All of you buggers are at it.
Priorities, Mizzy. You don’t want to be called a starry-eyed idealist for thinking the Empire will give up slavery overnight. What I suggested was a redirection of the very activities you complain affect the Republic to the enemies of the entire cluster. I understand that you still decry the institution, but we are past thinking it will just simply go away.
Redirection of the threat still keeps the threat in prominent view. This means peace is simply not sustainable. You still want it all, every benefit and no drawback. That’s not just unrealistic, it’s unconscionable.
Your conscience is a pretty brittle thing, though, Miz.