My powers are many and varied. Keeping people from chiming in with their viewpoint in a public fora is not one of them. No, I’m afraid this is just a demonstration of you being on the wrong side of history. That’s all. Why don’t you put words into action and actually stand up for peace, perhaps?
You know what it’ll take. I just highly doubt you have even the slightest intention of actually seeing peace.
No, I don’t really think that beating my wife to death with a Khumaak while weeping tears of contrition and rage for the plight of the poor Minmatar would be conducive to peace.
Oi, no cheating me out of that potential joy, you kill-stealin’ bastard. It’s not a very likely scenario to happen, but I can still dream of it.
You’re being deceitful. Especially when you say…
You’re lying. Because no matter what pretty words get used, when words no longer work, and God still wants everyone Reclaimed, then what happens? Will the Empire admit failure? The whole Empire? Or will there always be those willing to shed blood in God’s name?
One people seeking to annihilate another’s way of life is not peace. It doesn’t matter if your weapons are lasers or missionaries, it is a war.
“Look what you made me do !” screams the Minmatar pilot as they bombard Amarr cities.
“Look what you made me do”, states the Amarr pilot as they bombard Minmatar cities.
And above the corpses of a thousand dead worlds, with tens of trillions of unburied dead, the survivors of what is left of the Republic and Empire say “Yup. There was no other way.”
Our nullsec affiliations have nothing to do with our views on the Amarr/Matari conflict, Slayer. I mean, it’s not like I live in Prov. 
We could indeed, yes. Mind you, the Reclaiming does not advocate complete cultural annihilation, only religious dominance as far as the Imperial Rite is concerned. We Ni-Kunni retain many cultural practices from before we were Reclaimed, and have incorporated them with our practice of the Rite. Dam-Amarr is resistant to foreign cultural influences, but that is slowly changing, and infusion is possible so long as it does not lead to heresy.
I’m sure there is much to learn from the Matari, just as there is much to learn from every culture in the cluster. In the end, it is most important we impart the moral and spiritual truths of God’s will, not necessarily ever minutia of Amarr cultural practice and norms.
More idiocy. Again: The Empire can stop the Matari attacks any time it likes by ceasing its aggression.
But it’s not going to. And all of you hypocrites wringing your hand about body counts can shove your concern trolling where your heads are currently stuffed. Doing nothing racks up a larger body count over a longer period. Only idiots imagine we want the kind of mutual slaughter you fantasize about. But unless the Empire gives up the Reclaiming, it is only a matter of time.
Which everyone - from the loyalists through lapdogs and their opponents - has demonstrated is never going to willingly happen, so the only logical conclusion is that it has to be done by force.
Soooooo… any day now, I’m sure.
Sometimes it seems very, very fortunate to me that capsuleers usually aren’t the people doing the heavy lifting on international diplomacy.
Amen to that.
As annoying as Mizhara can be - she is correct in her simple explanation of Trust issues - Neither can trust the other - and neither of those can trust their allies inside the Republic and The Empire to follow the same path.
Stagnation or war are currently the only two options that seem to be on the table
Peace is so far off the table it might as well be in the next universe.
I knew I’d found my way into your little heart, Cha-cha. Mwah.
Well this thread has turned into a colossal disappointment. Even the few good attempts made all come back to this bloody Reclaiming, dual meaning intended. I can’t blame the Minmatar for mistrusting it after having been on the receiving end of it for so long. While I disagree with the Amarrians reasons for keeping Reclaiming, I do understand why it would be difficult, if nigh impossible, for them to change it.
I won’t insult anybody’s intelligence by repeating what I think should be done about Reclaiming. This is mainly between the Republic and the Amarr, but it seems somebody needs to change their mind. Not in the sense of how it’s been done under Reclaiming either but a willing and rational decision to see things differently. I think it’s clear where my bias lays on this issue, even though I’ve come to respect some of the people on the opposing side of this discussion.
Maybe, if we keep talking about it, reason and compassion will prevail. Maybe the compassionate thing to do is point out the pitfalls of holding on to an irrational belief. Maybe none of it will matter, but at least some people have put some effort into it.
Excuse me but I have to go spend some time in a dark corner of the bar lamenting the stupidity of humanity, including myself
That is all I could ask for and more. Even if you see this as a failure, I still do not. I wanted to hear ideas and opinions, and for others to hear ours. As long as just one other person was willing to listen and speak with good intent, it was worth it.
They shall indeed.
We all need that sometimes. Just make sure you come back out of it to keep up the good fight, Ms. Ambrye.
In times as treacherous as these, peace may seem a distant illusion, but we must never stop fighting to achieve and maintain it.
Well, theres plenty there I can see as positives. I’m sure there is plenty we could learn from each other. As far as the religious aspects well, As far as the negatives, I prefer to ambush my enemies with my comets not my comments. I think you can attest to that Aldrith? The words of my elders are more valuable to me than the words of yours just because yours wrote them down.
It’s really not, though it seems that way. The Reclaiming is a huge barrier to peace across the cluster. For, if they subjugate us, the Federation is next. Then the State.
The Matari are just the front line because the Amarr considered us easy prey, and are angry we fight back. But make no mistake, if they don’t give up the Reclaiming as has been asked here, the Federation will be vulnerable soon enough. There’s a lot of people there who long for the simple securities that faith offers, as opposed to the critical thinking a healthy democracy requires.
The State is, I think, wise to this and being pragmatic about balancing the immediate benefits with long term suspicions, but I see the Federation being very lackadaisical when you should be supporting your abolitionists who advocate closer and more active operations with the Republic.
The State would be far more pragmatic to seek a strategic realignment that saw them allied with the Republic to keep each of the expansionist powers in check.
I would agree, except there is no indication that the State intends to abandon its alliance with the Empire. Since they rarely do anything without assessing the cost/benefit, that tells me that they think, for now, the Republic is not a partner they want.
Wishes aside, the reality is that our allies right now are in the Federation. And the Federation abhors slavery and celebrates multiculturalism, making them prime targets for ‘Reclamation’, especially with the free access for missionaries.
It is indeed a bleak prospect. Us humans, well, applying the Sturgeon’s Law here? We don’t want whats good for our people, we want to be RIGHT. We want to WIN. We aren’t rational beings, we are rationalising beings. We will sooner scratch at our scabs over and over again to remind ourselves of the daggers which had inflicted them than to let the wounds heal and move on.
So, the status quo will stand, and will likely stand until for several more generations. Especially so for both the Empire and the Republic, whose people tend to have long memories about these sort of things. For the Republic, we pass them on. For the Empire, well, your people can be ridiculously long-lived. Especially your Holders.
Instead of burying the hatchet, compromise and get rid of the things that had been the root of both our problems and then focus on cleaning up our own messes such as improving standard of living for all citizens, focus on all that is beautiful about our cultures and excise all that festering rot clogging up the gears of our societies, much of us will rather be brandishing that hatchet and ignore everything that we actually do have, things that we should cherish. We may even trample on all that is beautiful about our society and use them as more fuel for the flames that we fan. And when the flames leap about and consume everything else, we will keep on fanning them. The heat and the light of that flame mesmerise us so.
Every time I wake up and look at the state of our societies, and I am including the State, the Federation and every pirate organisation, even just glimpsing my own home planet, I recognise that no matter what lofty ideals we promote, what good ideas we have, our species will eventually betray these ideals and ideas and drag ourselves down. All because we just can’t ever let go of the things that hurt us whenever we clutch at them. Because we consider these things to be the most important things in our transient existence when, ultimately, they all do not actually matter in the end. After all, does causality even give a damn about the faeces we are throwing around? Do the stars care about our wars, our quarrels, all of it? No matter our quarrels, our hates, we are all the same as far as the supernovas that devour our worlds are concerned.
We will sooner be unhappy and miserable than to let go of that which is causing us unhappiness and misery, especially when those things had become the memes of our society.
We are all but marionettes twitching and retching about on the stage of an absurd cosmic tragicomedy and yet we hold onto our strings so dearly.