Ms. Vess, I think we have discussed this already. There is a difference between Gallente and Amarr. While Amarr were agressively converting people in the past, Gallente do this in the present. I am sorry for what happened with your people, but it is all in the past already. Amarr speak a lot about reclamation, but it looks like in modern time it is just a theological concept, not a call to “enslave” and “convert” everyone. And I am talking not just about military expansion. The easiest proof to my word is in every media outlet.
Turn on the broadcasting channels and just look through it. Count, how many channels are currently broadcasting Amarr preaching for heathens (excluded preaching to Failthful - because, honestly, heathens like us probably won’t understand majority of the concepts they operate), and amount of Gallente crap, that they broadcast in every direction…
And another example is from my own experience. Did I tell you that I served in the Empire for about a year? Nobody ever tried to convert me all this time, they didn’t even try to teach me about the Faith.
Their religion now is just how they live their lives. Just like our way is how we live our lives. And I am absolutely fine with them, while they keep their religion just to themselves.
It’s just how we, Caldari, live. We protect our own way of life, and we don’t intervene into others ways of life.
As for whom created the monsters, I blame Gallente. Those Minmatar who got Amarr influence are Ammatar, and they totally don’t look as monsters to me.
And if you reference Mizhara as a monster… I really doubt it. Just loud annoying critter.
We, Minmatar, Amarr, we all can live our own lives without pushing each other. Well, at least, Caldari and Amarr can. Amarr did show that they can live with their concept of Reclamation without actually “reclaiming” neighbors and living in peace with Caldari, with Minmatar, even with these… Gallente. But can you?
What’s this nonsense about the amarr not aggressively converting our people? I have personally killed several slavers in Minmatar territory both on ground and in space.
Oh, and I killed some slavers in the State territory. And you know what? These slavers were Minmatars, wearing Angel Cartel badges. Should I say that minmatars are trying to agressively convert our people?
Ha!
They were just criminals and got what every criminal deserves.
Speaking about fights on ground, I’ll look for an opportunity to storm some Angel Cartel compounds in person - just to stomp stupid minmatar slaver faces into floor with first grade Caldari Navy Boots.
I believe you are correct, we have discussed this in the past. There absolutely is a difference between the Amarr and the Gallante, The Amarr were beaten by the Jove, and humbled by the Republic breaking from their grasp. They are a muzzled dog, They bit, drew a grievous wound and got punished for doing so. Please enlighten me, what do we have to ensure that once that muzzle comes off they don’t flail off and attack yet again? This is not to say that every Amarr is some savage killer, as Aldrith and a few others have shown, being the target of my autocannons in the past aside. He is NOT the majority, he is the voice of reason in their ranks for lack of better terms. Concord? The same thing that has been circumvented before to attack another major power? Nevermind the fact that as a signatory of it they could simply ignore/walk away from it if less honorable leaders took power.
If the Amarrian aggression was only in the past, why do we have people in this very thread effected by it? Along with that, they have said in the past the Caldari are marked for the reclaimation. They have declared their desire to bastardize your way of life. To quote a Krusual man I knew as a kid, “a smile to your face hides the knife in your back so well.” I wish we could believe that’s all they wanted as a people. A people is made up of individuals with their own free will.
I was referring to the Republic as a whole, but I’m glad you don’t see Miz as some monster. Shes simply a product of this conflict. Anyways, the Gallante would have little to no influence on us if their ancestors weren’t so crucial in getting our freedom. Its hard to fall into a hole that wasn’t dug, Who holds the shovel next to this particular hole? The Gallante held a rope, whether it had a noose on the other end is beside the point.
I like to think we could all live our own lives. Aside from half the noise in this thread I do have hope that at least some of them wish for a realistic peace. If its in the land of hypotheticals it at least means its on their mind which is promising.
Human ability to learn. There is no better teacher than our own mistakes. That muzzle is already gone - where are these Jove, who defeated the mighty Empire? The only power that managed to deal a blow to the Empire now were Drifters - but even these are enemies of everyone (unlike Jove), and they only managed to beat the Empire with “Code”-like dishonorable tactics. I was back then on the field and I am pretty sure if Drifters would have courage to dare to stand against us - we would decimate or even eterminate them wihtout problem. So now, there is no muzzle. And Amarr… they grew up. They matured. They aren’t these bullies like they were seven hundreds years ago, they aren’t bullies like gallentes are now. They look for peaceful coexistence with all of us, and that’s what they tell ourselves both to foreigners and their own people - at least that’s what I got from “Pax Amarria”
There is a war going on right now. When you attack a nation you pretty much will be affected by their return fire.
As for the holding knife… that is what I expect from Minmatar, not Amarr, and I am not surprised that Krusual told that. And I am happy I am not living in a Minmatar world. I live in Caldari world, where Honor is not an empty sound. And sense of honor unites us with the Empire. Don’t you yourself think that imagining a paladin who will backstab you is a bit… silly? However, I have to admit, that I do know one Templar who foolishly discarded his honor for no apparent reason. Luckily, it is just a single case among millions if not billions of honorable people.
Monster is a bad word to describe this. More like a pest, who should be easily exterminated without any pity or regret.
Ah, freedom freedom. This so beaten up and so dangerous and inhuman concept that was brough exactly by gallente. And you still fall for their propaganda, saying that it was “crucial”? Nonsence. Freedom is nothing, but destruction, loss of life and damage or property, violation of codes, loyalties, laws and morals, it is broken families, dead parents and dead children. These are all fruits of the freedom. And the only society that you can build on freedom is a criminal society.
Try to look at this from the different angle. Would Minmatar want freedom at all if not Gallente? One wise man told me: “Ultimate goal of the real slaves is not to break their chains. They want to have their own slaves.” It’s just a human nature and there’s no need to deny that. It is way better to acknowledge who we are. Soldiers want to become generals to order other soldiers. Corporate workers want to become managers to have that power that their own managers have over them. And so a slave wants to become a master and have own slaves. And it is not really bad, because it stimulates the progress of our civilization and our growth that eventually leads to our Ascension… well, provided we are competent enough to “fight” all those others competitors who want to ascend as well. The fight for the ladder of ascension becomes intense, as the higher it gets, the narrower it becomes, and less and less people can climb higher.
The desire for freedom is not desire for ascension. It is a desire to destroy what others have created, to break the whole system that is held by many lives, and to hurt those, who have ascended, just because you can’t ascend yourself. To stomp down those, who are better - it is a gallente filth. And it will be better for all of us if you discard any such ideas.
So you’re saying Amarr are the same as common criminals and should be shot down like dogs in a manner that befits such an organization. I’m glad we are on the same page.
I never said this. Buy yourself a reading skillbook. And after you train that to level V, buy yourself reading comprehension skillbook and train it at least to level I.
After that try reading again. And don’t bother me with your nonsence until you do that.
Oh, REALLY? Okay, I’ll push your nose right to it.
You dared to say I was … “saying Amarr are the same as common criminals and should be shot down like dogs in a manner that befits such an organization”.
And that is absolute lie, since there is no such place where I’ve ever said this, you just run your foolish minmatar mouth about those, who are better than you.
You said in your first post “What’s this nonsense about the amarr not aggressively converting our people? I have personally killed several slavers in Minmatar territory both on ground and in space.”
Did you say you kill “amarr slavers”? No. You said you kill slavers. That’s all. Thus I said I killed slavers as well, and referenced they were minmatar slavers. So I suggested you to make same conclusion you made about amarr “agressively converting your people” just because you killed slavers, that minmatar were doing the same - yes, because slavers I did kill were minmatars from the republic, more specifically minmatar criminal organization Angel Cartel.
You still fail to understand this?
Baaaaakaaaaaaa… get out from my sight!
With respect, the Angel cartel are criminal, the Amarr navy is working on behalf of the Amarr empire, a nation who has officially declared such things as criminal but doesn’t seem to lift a finger when those of a lower station within their ranks commit such criminal actions. Whether they are authorized or not is irrelevent. They are comitting a criminal action and the empire is turning a blind eye to it. I"ll admit I want to find some reasoning in your words but its plain to see an error here, to hold the Angel cartel at the same moral high ground as ANY empire is simply wrong.
Ms. Vess, he said it was “slavers”, not “Imperial Navy”. And as slavers I assumed common criminals like Angel Cartel, who commit illegal human trafficking.
I know nothing about operatins of the Imperial Navy in the enemy back areas, but I know for sure that Amarr Empire retains legal ability to enslave any criminal or prisoner of war they capture during their operations (instead of imprisoning them like we do - it’s their legal system and their form of punishment). I wouldn’t call that “slavers” though. Maybe you prefer them to just execute PoWs? Or for them to do like gallente, stuff them into exploding cells, starve to death and beat? I am pretty sure that slavery is times better than gallentean treatment of PoWs.
From what I recall from my time working with an agent from the Sebiestor tribe out of Eram, The “slavers” he speaks of had transponders broadcasting that they were imperial ships, their crews carried imperial rank ensignias. I would like to say maybe a false flag attack but they are a little too numerous to say the Empire wouldn’t notice litterally billions of counterfit imperial id tags and misidentified ships and done nothing over the past decades.
To put it simply, the likelyhood of those “slavers” not being Amarrian in origin is about as likely as the Gallante POW camps being falseflag operations by the Serpantis. Its not really theoretically possible at the levels we’ve seen. The empire, the Gallante, ect would HAVE to notice and make changes to their operations, if they valued what they’ve agreed to with concord. It would be a PR nightmare if they made no action and it wasn’t them, possibly worse than actually committing the crimes.
The Imperial Navy conducts illegal and disavowed attacks on civilian populations within Minmatar space—people who are not, and have never been, subject to Amarr laws, have had no dealings with the Empire or her subjects, and so cannot have violated Imperial law. They conduct these illegal attacks for the purposes of taking slaves. Civilians. Non-combatants. Children.
Ok so what we do right. What we do is this. The fundamental problem is that there’s two different peoples.
So we make them one people !
Intermarriage and all that. Once there’s enough dual ethnicity children, the ideas of enslaving and killing each other will lose all appeal.
Of course with the different population sizes there’s a little bit of an issue. But not too surmountable. Each Amarr would just need two Minmatar husbands or wives. Or one of both. I’m not judgemental that way.
I call dibs on Deitra Vess and that Corraidhin Farsaidh chap.
They already tried making us ‘one people’. That’s the whole idea behind the Reclaiming, remember? We don’t want to be them. We don’t particularly want them to be us. We want to be left the hell alone.