If you create an additional (good) reward for completing ALL daily tasks
p.s. - I have alot of such ideas but really do not know do i choose proper place on forum to type it=)
No, itâs enough grind to have to do 2 random tasks a day to get the login reward which used to be handed out for logging in.
Many players do not do all the activities covered by the daily tasks, I, for one, will never mine, and donât particularly want to sign up for Faction Warfare.
There are plenty of things to do in Eve, which give ingame rewards, I donât think we need to be corralled into specific tasks by a RNG.
No, allowing players to select only two challenges to complete for the day gives players more freedom and interferes less with their daily gameplay than if they felt like they needed to do 5 to âcompleteâ their chores.
Let me say I am not a fan of daily challenges.
But I see possibilities.
Daily challenges are a dark pattern in gaming, a manipulative trick added on top of the real game to cheaply boost engagement with little effort.
Many online games apply it, sadly, as it works well. And in some games itâs implemented better than in others.
CCP is pretty late with adding theirs and I wonât have illusions that CCP will remove it either, but the least they could do is to improve it so that we have a good version of daily challenges rather than a bad one.
What makes daily challenges bad or good?
Ideally daily challenges would do the following:
The current dailies fail on a few of these points.
An example of a daily challenge system that I think works well is in Albion online. The daily there is to âgain X amount of fameâ where fame is the equivalent of skill points here but gained actively by grinding instead of passively. This means that someone who crafts some items, tends to some crops or fights NPCs for loot will complete their daily goal by simply doing what they wanted to do anyway that day.
In other words, when I played Albion I got my daily reward for simply playing, so while the dailies encouraged me to play that day they never felt like a chore.
In EVE daily tasks do feel like a chore: if I donât go out of my usual way to specifically do tasks just to complete dailies it is very likely I wonât complete my dailies that day. Iâve got plenty of chores in real life and donât play games to do more chores so besides trying to complete the daily challenge track one month I stopped caring and have ignored dailies since.
Note that this is a flaw specific to EVEâs daily design: in other games I donât mind dailies.
The design challenge for EVE is that there is no such thing as a âfameâ reward for pretty much any activity. Instead EVE needs many different triggers to check whether a player played âenoughâ for the day for a reward while doing their usual thing, which is hard as playstyles here are incredibly varied.
Not everyone shoots NPCs during their regular sessions, not everyone mines or scans signatures.
And if they do, it might happen on completely different characters as each EVE account is encouraged to have three of those for different roles.
The addition of âjump 3 gatesâ was a massive step in the right direction as this is completed by almost anyone who does their regular gameplay for the day, but it still misses the point for players who log in to do industry or trading.
But thatâs only half the necessary tasks to complete EVEâs daily, so many days I still miss the daily because I either didnât jump around enough or played on another of my characters or while playing didnât do one of the other specific tasks selected for that day.
As a result I almost never got the âmonthlyâ reward either, and stopped caring for it.
This means the daily challenges fail to motivate me to log in and play daily, which means they fail their main goal.
My conclusion is that the current implementation only works for a smaller selection of players than intended and thus can be improved.
Now back to your suggestion:
You suggest that players have to complete 5 rather than 2 tasks to appply for that dayâs full reward.
While this obviously is nice for players who enjoy chasing these tasks, it further reduces the number of players who still get motivated by the tasks as they now need to go even more out of their way and spend more of their game time doing chores instead of spending that time playing the game.
With your suggested changes I expect more players will, like me, stop caring about the tasks, which reduces the effectiveness of the dailies, even if they become more rewarding for the people who still do them.
Instead my suggestion to improve dailies would be different:
In other words EVE should make it even easier to complete dailies by simply playing as usual and not punish players for using their three characters as intended.
Let dailies be their intended motivation to log in and play for the day, and not feel like a chore.
Maybe if CCP does this I might start caring about dailies.
TL;DR: to boost engagement CCP should make it easier to complete dailies, not harder.
My suggestion was to add to the already current reward for completing 3 daily tasks another reward for completing all five.
and adding a big reward for completing all five for 10 consecutive days without missing a day.=)
The problem of such an unforgiving FOMO design is that you exclude anyone who does miss a day in 10 days, who now no longer feels encouraged to play daily so the purpose of your âdaily encouragement systemâ fails.
The OPâs suggestion is about adding another reward for completing all of the Daily GoalsâŚ
Itâs not about increasing the amount of tasks currently required to complete the Daily GoalsâŚ
And Gerard⌠Jeez Louise, was that wall of text AI inspiredâŚ
Now about players actually caring or not caring about completing the Daily Goals⌠Iâll bet thereâs more players who actually log in characters on multiple accounts just to quickly complete the Daily Goals for Skill Point rewards compared to those who donât..
Hello and welcome to the forumsâŚ
The general basis of your idea is good⌠However the Daily Goal task selections would need to be more generic and less specific so that most players could actually accomplish it..
Either that or each Daily Goal task would need to have an alternate option for completion..
Anyway, keep thinking of ways to help improve Eve⌠Also donât be afraid to post even if those ideas seem to be way âout of the boxââŚ
The place for that would be in this sub-forumâŚ
Yes, I understood that.
And as I said I think it is a bad idea that makes the dailies more of a chore than they currently are, which could have the opposite effect of the intended goal of dailies, which is to increase daily engagement with the game rather than reducing it.
This isnât our first conversation and I would have expected you to know by now that I can type a whole lot without using AI.
This. They should just remove that crap. I see people logging in and out a dozen chars or more just âto do dailiesâ. They donât even do useful things in the game or offer any content opportunities. They just do stupid repeatable nonsense-things.
And then they âcanâtâ participate in corp operations because the addictive pressure to farm those ridiculous sp-gifts, âbecause I need to do the dailies first!â.
Incredibly stupid system.
No content opportunities? lol, currently it takes less than 5 minutes to complete the Daily Goals for SP rewardsâŚ
Guess you guys also want the weekly free 15k Omega SP reward removed from the NES as well.. In fact why stop there, might as well remove the SP rewards from the AIR Career Program, the Agency Event Points rewards and the Event Log-in rewards⌠While weâre at it, letâs remove SPâs from all Eve game packs too..
Yes, No, Yes, Yes and Yes.
I think AIR Career program SP has a function as both guiding new players into EVE and getting them up to speed with skills with the extra SP rewarded for following the guidance.
The rest? Cheap manipulative tricks that EVE would better be without.
5 minutes per character, so 15 minutes daily playtime wasted on chores for an account. And thatâs only if your character is capable of doing the tasks in the part of space youâre living in which in case of wormhole space or sov null is hard when it comes to âobtaining LPâ for example.
Thatâs your opinion and youâre welcome to think so..
Personally if it wasnât for all those SP incentives, I wouldnât be logging into Eve nearly half as much as I currently do⌠Which is probably the same for a majority of playersâŚ
I said âLess than 5 minutesâ⌠Most times itâs usually completed even quickerâŚ
As for your example, thatâs an extreme case scenario which might apply to a very small percentage of players⌠Also due to the large selection and variety of tasks available in the Daily Goals, itâs extremely easy for majority of players during their regular game play session to complete those goals without even tryingâŚ
Which is a shame.
Imagine how good this game could be if CCP had to make an actually engaging game for all those players to play daily, instead of bribing those players with cheap manipulative tricks?
That may be true but you must remember that this system replaced the login rewards which took literally seconds.
I do like SP rewards, I have characters who can fly useful ships whoâve been trained entirely on free SP.
What I donât like is the steady slow creep of a timesink that getting those rewards has become. If the OPs suggestion only gave SKINR rewards or Evermarks, then fine, go for it, but Iâm expect they want the stretch rewards to be better than the other rewards, and thus include SP, and then I have to do even more grind to get my free SP.
Ok, enough with the thread derailmentâŚ
The main point of posting ideas for changes in Eve is to receive feedback that will refine the original idea and hopefully make it betterâŚ
Basically the feedback reply should reveal any unconsidered / overlooked negative issues and provide some positive suggestions to possibly resolve those issuesâŚ
If you canât provide any suggestions to help make the idea better or show reasons why the idea canât be implemented due to current game mechanics, then thereâs no need to post a replyâŚ
Funny that you say that, because that is exactly what I did!
I pointed out unconsidered overlooked negative issues of the feedback and provided positive suggestions to possibly resolve those issues.
The unconsidered overlooked negative issues were that increasing the workload of daily challenges turns them into more of a chore and while it gives greater rewards to the selection of people who still do it, it likely makes the selection of people who still engage with them smaller, which goes against the intended goal of dailies.
I also provided positive suggestions to resolve it in a set of changes I think would improve daily challenges:
Hey Op, edit your first post and move your idea to the right section
And that right there is where you either misunderstood or mis-read the OPâs idea⌠The OPâs idea is not about increasing the amount of tasks to complete the Daily Goals, itâs about adding another additional reward track for completing all of the Daily GoalsâŚ
And your suggestion is completely different from the OPâs idea, so much that it could actually be posted in itâs own proposal threadâŚ
However, the main issue with your suggestion is it only rewards one character on the account. Current Daily Goals can give rewards to all characters on the account..
Anyway, Iâm done with you and more importantly, for helping to derail this threadâŚ
He doesnât misunderstand. What he sees is the problem that people then not spend â5 minutesâ per char to do 2 dailies, but â10 minutesâ to get the additional reward for completing all 5 goals. Which means almost an hour just âdoing dailiesâ for someone with 3 accounts * 3 chars.
This ârunning after dailiesâ is really disrupting corp life at some point, and for people living in regions where you donât have LP or FW available it becomes even an recruitment issue, as they cannot offer a space/environment where every of those options is even available.
The point is, his concerns are totally valid and anyone not dwelling permanently in highsec would know that. The current system is really bad and before making it worse, by adding even more time-eating minigoals that add absolutely nothing to the real gameplay (no undocking for 2 minutes and just shooting + remoterepping some alts in ships only built for this purpose ISNâT contentâŚ).
First of all, he did misunderstand or misread the OPâs proposal⌠I even quoted his reply which clearly shows it..
Now about your statement that the actual tasks in the Daily Goals are not user friendly for a small percentage of players to complete, the reality is despite the players location, the current Daily Goals have a variety of tasks available which makes it extremely easy for everyone to completeâŚ
Lastly, if players want to spend all their time completing every single task in the Daily Goals, they have the right to do soâŚ
So let me get this straight.
You complain that I have given my own suggestion of how I would improve the OPâs request.
But if I had not given my own suggestion you would have complained that I had not given suggestions to resolve the issues I mentioned?
See:
Please be consistent with what you expect from others.
You cannot expect both that people do not give their own suggested improvements and also expect them to do give their own suggested improvements, and then complain either way.
On the contrary, it is not easy to complete the daily goals while doing regular gameplay.
I logged in earlier and had the following options:
So out of the 5 options I have only four are mechanically possible, of which two are unreasonable or too situational and require me to do something I would rarely ever do in my usual gameplay.
At best two of them align with my usual gameplay, which is a very tight selection for such a âwide varietyâ when the required number is two. For someone who is in a similar situation as I am but does not explore for their fun they cannot complete todayâs dailies doing their usual gameplay.
In other words, daily goals are not âeasy to completeâ.
I think thatâs a major flaw of the current daily challenge design.
The problem with such a thought is that it is similar to
âIf players wish to play a shitty game they have the right to do soâ as argument against me saying âthis change turns the game into a shitty gameâ.
Yes, I agree people have the full right to play a shitty game. I also have the right to give my feedback to ideas that make the game I enjoy playing worse.
Increasing the amount of time people are encouraged to spend on daily tasks is counterproductive to the purpose of daily tasks.
The purpose of daily tasks is to increase daily engagement of players with the game and does so by being a minimal task with a reward track that encourages players to log in many times a month to do a bare minimum of playing, at which point the player is online and is flying a spaceship so they then might continue playing the game anyway that day.
Anything the game does to lengthen this minimal task increases the threshold for players to start playing the game, while the purpose of daily challenges is the opposite and to reduce this threshold.
Speaking for myself the threshold to complete these tasks currently is too high and too often unaligned with my regular gameplay. I never complete the monthly track, which means the dailies fail to have effect on my log-in behaviour.
This is not a problem on my end, other games have successfully implemented daily tasks that did motivate me to play, simply because I completed them by playing the game that day as I already would even if the dailies did not exist.
I think thatâs a failure of the current daily challenge design of EVE in particular.
Is that the main issue you have with my suggestion?
Then I suggest you reread my suggestion again, in particular the third point, now bolded:
- Keep the requirement of 2 challenges
- Let dailies and the monthly track count account-wide (weâve got three characters per account. Let me mine on my mining character, scan on the explorer or earn LP on a mission runner!)
- Boost the rewards to make up for the fact that itâs now once per account instead of thrice
My idea is to reduce the effort it takes to participate in daily challenges to the bare minimum in order to maximize the amount of players who feel encouraged to participate daily by the monthly reward track.