Advanced buy orders

I would like my broker to earn his broker fee.

Advanced buy orders would require 2 extra pieces of information
Top price and Time to acquire ( 1 hour <> 90 days )

The broker will adjust my price upwards over the time specified in order to try to fill the order.

E.g.

Advanced buy order ( Broker instructions )
Item : Trit
Amount : 10,000,000
Start Bid : 2 isk
End Bid : 5 isk
Time to complete : 3 days

This would create a normal buy order of ( Buy Trit / 2 isk / 10,000,000 units ) visible on the market.
Every so often a broker ( thread on the server ) would get round to checking the progress of my order.
If an insufficient amount has been brought then the market order would be altered upwards.

  • There is no guarantee order will be completed ( you still need sensible prices )
  • There might be an option to leave order up after escalation period
  • Orders can be cancelled as per standard orders
  • Orders might or might not be adjustable manually depending on how difficult this would be
  • Orders would appear to other players just like any other order on the market
  • Advanced Sell orders with minimum price also possible
  • Full broker fee payable on manual price edit - totally destroying market bot viability - * optional

Pros

  • Enables all players ( end users , industrialist and speculators ) to get the things they need without
    having to pay gouge prices or babysit orders for days on end.

  • Reduces the 0.01 game ( 90% of players use it , 99.9% of players hate it ).
    Market speculation becomes a matter of making judgement calls about the future direction of prices rather than a test of dumb endurance or willingness to resort to bots.

  • reducing the amount of cash available to RMT raised through market bots by more rapidly closing the gap between buy and sell prices

  • More time to pew pew while dabbling in markets, doing industry or just getting better deals.

  • Would reduce the amount of CPU required to constantly serve market pages to market bots or users having to manually babysit there orders

Cons

  • Would require server CPU resources to implement

So you basically just want a market bot yourself but without getting banned?

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This :+1:

@Caleb_Seremshur looks like you’ve got an alt that has had the same idea as you: https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-we-need-a-market-autobidder

Any chance of merging these into a common “I want a market bot” thread for him?

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Anybody ever bid for something on Ebay? You can specify a price AND a max bid. Your bid auto-ups as long as your max is higher than current.

I’d love to see similar functionality in Eve with both order types (auto drop to min for sell orders, auto up to max for buy orders), with the mininum time to update orders increased significantly.

This would empower real people who put in the effort ahead of time to calculate the value of items and their margins to compete on the market instead if just those who can update every 5 minutes.

This is coming from someone that has done a boatload of trading successfully. I just think the game can do a lot better for REAL players.

Hah, guess I should have read the other thread first.

I still think Ebay min max market bidding is an improvement

The market is a brokerage market (similar to share and commodity markets) not an auction.
If you want auctions you can do that through contracts.

I want a level playing field.
Market bots exist because the because the market system ( unchanged in 16 years ) is inadequate

I think, there is room for something like this.

First, it should be worse than manually updating orders - that is have a longer interval, and have a minimum step size significantly larger than 0.01 ISK. Second, it should have a cost, and ideally, be open to disruption by the other players through violence. The last is a bit pie-in-the-sky and probably too difficult to engineer, but an Eve player can dream.

The market in Eve functions well, and needs the ability to enter arbitrary offers by definition, but this leads to too much 0.01 ISKing, and a less efficient market where reaching the equilibrium price less efficient than it could be. Everyone benefits, possibly other than speculator/traders/bots/market manipulators, if the market moves up and down efficiently to the “correct” equilibrium price.

You can’t remove the ability to 0.01 ISK but you could add a semi-automated bid adjustment system that some players would prefer to use. Say one that has a 15 minutes update interval, and a minimum step size of 0.1% - 1% above/below of the current best bid (and also the bid-bot has an additional cost). This would allow people willing to pay for this service to also act as a lubricant for the market, helping match trades quicker for everyone.

The exact details can be figured out by CCP, but something like this to fight the inclination of the average Eve player to only 0.01 ISK everything likely would improve the efficiency of price discovery by the market.

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I’ve been trading in EVE since pretty much the beginning fof time. Market bots really don’t impact me a whole lot. If you’re one of these people who desperatesly babysits their orders caring about the 0.01 isk game, then it can be a problem but only because you’re mirroring the bahviour of a bot. If you’re trading at scale though the sheer number of orders makes the 0.01 game unthinkable, so the bots become irrelevant.

I’m not even sure how aany of these autobidding features would help though. You’d still have to cap your price and a bot would still repeatedly outbid you, so it would just give people an automated way of driving up buy prices. You’d still end up at your bid cap fighting the 0.01 game.

If market bots exist (lol) then just report them to ccp using the Report Bot feature. Just because someone else is cheating does not mean the proper solution is to demand that you be able to cheat yourself.

How would it be cheating if it was an in game feature? please explain your logic.
You can’t see the name of a player who has a market order or know an individual is a bot and get rid of one there are 1000 more to find, its not my job to police the system , the game needs fixing to make market bots pointless, Of course those currently exploiting would lose out.

It’s cheating now, you mango.

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You can. Just buy the item and look at your market transactions. It’ll tell you the name of the seller.

Report them if you think they are bots.

If you can’t tell if someone is a bot how are you so sure they are?

Your counter solution is not very practical is it, Do you have bot income to protect ?

My “counter solution” is that you use the tools ccp provides to report the players that you so confidently believe are bots, as bots. Simple as that. I market for most of my isk and don’t even touch it more than once a week and don’t even notice any bots.

I’m guessing you must be playing the 0.01 isk game and constantly being beaten by someone else who is also playing the 0.01 isk game and getting frustrated over it. Then jumping to the conclusion that they must be bots since no one other than you should have the ability to sit there and play the 0.01 isk game. Am I right?

To be fair, this has about the same impact on the existence of bots as scrawiling “grr bots” on your desk does. CCP has no incentive to go after bots that require omega accounts.

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CCP’s team actually puts work into it if you put in the effort to report them.

I don’t see myself mentioning anywhere that there bots are Omega accounts. All of the ones I’ve reported were using ships and equipment that were accessible to Alphas.

If the OP thinks there are market bots, he can report them, and if they are bots, CCP will act.

But he doesn’t even know that you can see the who the sellers of items on the markets are, so it’s likely that he’s recently learned about Marketing, tried it out for a couple of days playing the 0.01 isk game, and now is fed up because someone else is also playing the 0.01 isk and beating him.

Not really , not at all in fact , you seem to be missing the point.
You’re far to obsessed with the this will hurt market bot users.

It’s not about policing bots, bot nullification is just a happy side-effect.

Its about completing buy orders in a set time.
So that builds are ready to go.
Without having to spend 100s of hours of game time manually adjusting orders.

They thank you for the report, sure, and they add thair classic “we can’t give you any more information about any action we take” line, but nothing actually changes.

Yeah, so those types of bots will be dealt with. Ventures and the like. But market bots don’t really function in alpha because you’ll have max sales tax as you can’t have accounting, only level 2 in broker relations (not a problem in a citadel obviously) and a limited number of orders, like 17 I think it is as an alpha.

They really won’t. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a market bot stop operating after reporting. Given, there’s no way to tell if it’s really a bot or just a very persistent nolifer, but you’d expect to see at least a couple ceasing to function. I think one of the market bloggers even followed one for ages working out the patterns and that one was still operating years after being reported.