Advanced Military Career Agent Mission Proving Ground

The purpose of the Advanced Military Career missions are to introduce PVP to new players.
I think adding a pvp proving ground mission to the end would be great.
The proving ground could be limited to rookie ship.
The rookie player would battle (not necessarily win) against another rookie player in order to graduate and get the destroyer.
There would be no time limit on the mission so that a rookie could complete this mission when another rookie is available to battle.

How do you define a rookie player?
How do you define when the match happens, I queue for an hour and get magically teleported, or do I have to sit at a specific place and wait for someone else to come to the same place I am at? etc?

Rookie player in this context means the person doing the career agent. Yes that can be an alt.
There is not much incentive to for a skilled player farming this proving ground by re-running the career agents. There is no prize beyond graduation (and the same destroyer they could get now).
With adequate ship and fitting restrictions this is not a large hurdle.

A match happens in the same way as any other proving ground. The player uses a filament.
I don’t really see this as an impediment since that mechanic already exists in the game.
I would suggest that the filaments be available from the career agent.

Current proving grounds give auto wins to you if an opponent doesn’t show.
I would expect that many no shows would happen which would defeat the purpose of any ‘PvP Training’

New players should not be introduced to this instance madness. If you want them to experience PvP, send them on a mission to retrieve something from low sec. If they succeed, congratulate them and give them further info like how to see and avoid camps and such things. If they fail, tell them why they failed, give them more info like how to use a faster and more agile ship to have better chances of success, and let them try again.

And you don’t think this could be overcome?

If it was put into the tutorial it would be like saying to new players this is normal gameplay.

Which it isn’t. It’s temporary gimmicky ‘event’ gameplay.

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The inference here is that the Advanced Military Career (and the other career agent) missions currently reflect pvp “normal gameplay”.
I take it it has been a long while since you last ran them.

“temporary gimmicky ‘event’ gameplay”; is this different than the current proving grounds?
Do the ship and module limitations suggested not already exist in every proving ground?
And unlike the proving grounds that are routinely offered up this suggestion is in no way temporary.

Not as long as you think. I make new characters everynow and then to keep in touch with the NPE.

Not necessarily PVP. What they reflect is mission running, a staple of eve since day dot. The other things they do is demonstrate how some modules work and how ship loss works.

Exactly. When the proving grounds are over, there will be part of the tutorial that has absolutely nothing to do with any feature found in game.

Like saying: ‘this is the kind of thing you can expect in the game’. Except it isn’t.

A limited fit arena is actually the perfect training ground for learning PvP. The skill ceiling for PvP is very high and requires a huge amount of learning to achieve competence. Limiting the skills to a smaller subset would make learning skills like heat management, manual piloting and maintaining optimal range easier. These skills can then be applied to open world PvP. Believe me - it works.

The proving grounds in their current form have been running for a full year and show no sign of being removed.

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You honestly couldn’t be more wrong.

The major lessons of pvp in the sandbox are situational awareness, maths with asymmetric forces, engagement ranges, rock-paper-scissors.

Proving grounds involves little to none of that. No situational awareness. No asymmetric forces. Engagement range works completely differently because of borders and no warping out.

The micromanagement you refer to plays a minor role in sandbox pvp where the vast majority of pvp is non-consensual let alone asymmetrical.

I’m sure you’re awesome at pretend pvp like proving grounds and honorable 1v1’s, but that’s not even a small part of eve. It’s a tiny niche of the game participated by a minority of players.

And if you put it in the NPE what you’re gonna get is a bunch of players believing that’s how pvp is meant to be played and crying foul everytime they encounter ‘dishonorable’ pvp. They will literally say ‘thats not how pvp is meant to work’ even though the exact opposite is the reality.

Like the various events. Drifters, trigs, gate building etc?

It’s still just a temporary, isolationist, gimmick played by a small amount of players that hugely misrepresents what actually happens in eve.

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Pretty much the only PvP I have done in the last year has been in the proving grounds, until last week when I put an alt in faction warfare. Oddly I seem to be better than I was before, it’s almost like focused practice on a narrow set of skills is the key to general improvement.

I’m interested to know the numbers on this, I would be supprised if the balance is where you say it is. Most of the PvP I have been involved in, in hs, ls, wh and null has been consensual, not all, but the vast majority.

It’s from CCP themselves. Can’t find the quote but that is what they said.

What exactly falls under non-consensual pvp is open to interpretation however.

Isn’t a good measure. You obviously had already tried sandbox pvp before proving grounds. You learned about checking local and d-scan. You understood what a warp disruptor is for. You understood that you could be blobbed or run into a gate camp, Your expectations were to encounter sandbox pvp.

When you put proving grounds into the tutorial. You are telling all new players: 'this is what you should expect from eve pvp’

And when they head out they’re going to find that the game lied to them. They will feel all the more betrayed because the tutorial set them up for something that only a tiny amount of players indulge in. When their target warps off. When their target warps in at zero. When they’ve been stalked by an alt scout. When they can’t push someone up against the barrier wall and the kiter just keeps flying away forever. When they are baited by a cyno. When the bad guys won’t fly comparable ships.

Eve already has a hard time managing peoples expectations without misleading them, which is what this would do.