All About ESS, Nullsec Blob and Speed Creep

Communications Center General Discussion
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This thread will mainly discuss on 3 of the following topics

  • Nullsec blob and its effect on roamers
  • ESS and the effects of the new stealing mechanics
  • The current speed creep meta and how it interacted with the ESS bubble

Wall of text warning
I will try to make this clean and formatted, but still, expect a lot of text coming your way.

  1. Nullsec blob
    1.1 Why blob is here, and it is inevitable
    Nullsec blob is pretty much the result of player sov mechanics. Players alliances gets de facto control over a specific area of systems, and they will want to defend it.
    Since PVE activities is inevitable for large player alliance (even though some PVP-orienated alliance or crop may get away with it, we won’t discuss about that here), players are forced to provide defense over roamers for theirs PVE activities, let it be ratting, mining, DED sites running, or hauling.
    The problem within nullsec defense is that, although you can easily scale your PVE activities by recruiting more players (or multiboxing), there is no easy way to quickly improve your PVP competence (hiring mercs does not count here).
    Hence the doctrine fleet and blob.
    Logistics can help you tank roamer’s dps and avoid loss of ship, enough firepower will eventually break your opponent’s tank, and interdictors&interceptors will help pin down the enemy of your choosing.
    Player PVP skill requirement is vastly reduced with the implementation of PVP fleets as most players only need to adhere to FC’s instructions.
    If you are a reasonable player and you get to make the decision, you will also make the blob (Or Fast-Response-Fleet, as some may prefer to call it) happen.
    ====================================================
    1.2 The effect of nullsec blob, and how it affected roamers
    In short: Roamers have a hard day.
    Within player sov area that has an active SRF, the roamer(s) basically have only 2 options.
    Not taking gate after you kill something, and filament out
    OR
    Use covert ops+interdiction nullifier T3C
    Both options are widely adopted for roamers who does not want to go YOLO with their ship, since / thus they used a more expensive ship.
    The former options is often used in tandem with cloak, as the hunter can just make a safe spot and go for a coffee break when he wait for the 15min PVP timer to pass, as the defender SRF has nearly no chance of finding him if the said hunter is not caught red-handed on site. Some small gangs also take the approach of warping constantly into deepspace safespots when someone land on grid to pass the timer.
    The latter option allows the hunter to pass gate camps and not to be stopped by anchored bubbles on gate and/or interdictors on gate. To catch this type of hunter, either pin him down on site, or try to uncloak him with a experienced interdictor pliot, as ships of such fitting may require a align time of 10 seconds.
    ANYTHING other than the above 2 options basically means the life expectancy of the hunter’s ship (and pod) is no better than a couple of kills.
    ======================================================
    1.3 How I think of nullsec blob
    I think it feels suck to be a roamer when the game is full of blobs, but thinking from the defender’s side, if they can’t utilize means of transportation like jump bridges, why even bother to get a bigger sov and recruiting players? Nullsec blob is currently a response from players in terms of fleet size, rather than fleet quality, as this is more cost effective in many means (less training and less cost on ships).
    The blob is fair in terms of game design, but makes the opponent feels bad.
    I don’t see a solution to this in any short time, feel free to post your idea.
    PS: Filament is a circumvention , not a solution.

  2. ESS and the stealing of it
    If you don’t know about the ESS change yet:

Quick facts here

New ESS is a gated deadspace pocket, only allowing cruiser-battleship sized ships to enter, you land 10km from the ESS once you take the gate, and you will be trapped in a 65km radius bubble that is basically a scram-scripted HIC warp bubble. I.E: No warp/jump/MJD/MWD. Also no cloak/cyno/anchoring within the bubble, no cyno is allowed on grid of gate or ESS itself.

And in case you want to see the current meta (at least from my observation)

Current meta developed to:

[Attackers] Snipers- Naga/Tornados sitting at the edge of the bubble
====== volleying anyone dare to enter into thin air. NEED TO ENTER FIRST
[Attackers] Brawlers- Basically any tanked blaster fitted ship sitting at entry
====== melting anyone dare to enter into hot wreck. NEED TO ENTER FIRST
[Attackers] [Defenders] Any Sansha ships- Since Sansha ships has AB bonus
====== they can just blaze in the bubble as usual, and their price skyrocketed recently
[Attackers] [Defenders] Any cruiser with 100AB- The name speaks for itself.
====== Not seems to be very popular
[Defenders] Any thicc battleship- To tank the aforementioned snipers and brawlers
====== takes forever to get out of bubble after the fight :frowning:
[Anyone who can afford it] T3Cs- I thinks this needs no explanation
====== bruh

  1. (RIP formatting)
    So basically the new ESS is a CCP’s “Nullsec proving grounds” with the restriction of no interdictors, no interceptors, and no MWD.
    ================================
    TL;DR: Feels suck to be defending it
    ================================
    The fact that manually sharing is no longer possible makes defending ESS undeniable when it has more then 100M sitting in it. And even in that situation, defending it is often not successful, as you only get 5mins from the warning, and the fleet need to melt the offending ship before the timer ticks out. This is a bit easier since the ESS will tell who’s breaking the bank, and the offender cannot leave 10km radius of the ESS.
    And it feels extra sucks when you blow up the offender
    only to know that he got the vouchers, and the vouchers didn’t drop in his wreck :upside_down_face:
    Basically you never get to enter before the attackers unless you camp in there beforehand, which is undesirable for obvious reasons.
    Feel free to comment on this

  2. Speed creep, and ESS
    Due to the game mechanics, speed means both distance and angular velocity, which is the 2 ways of avoiding damage application, so everyone wants to be faster and faster, just to get the upper hand on the emenies (Both in terms of catching up with the emeny, and also speed tanking).
    This resulted in the meta that almost every ship is using MWD, even those entering ESS are often found with dual prop fitting, which is versatile, but still cancerous to fight against. The abuse of interceptors, as I see it, is a response to the speed creep, and you even get to see some Gallentean cruisers flying at an absurd speed of 6000m/s as the meta envolves.
    ESS is an attempt to address this problem. While causing Sansha ships to suddenly skyrocket in price, it did make nullsec more active, but cancerous tactics (e.g. Naga/Tornado sniping) are popping up faster than the lock speed of gate campers in Tama.
    IMHO: a good attempt, but still didn’t fix anything, and 1400mm projectile cannons are running out of stock :rofl:

@Inxentas_Ultramar @safira_jomita
Here’s the thread I promised, enjoy

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Are you new to nullsec pvp?

Speed based kitey gangs have ALWAYS been the most consistent and reliable fleet composition because every other composition results in heavy tackle + a cyno with capitals dropped on you. This isn’t a new phenomenon. Hell, people used to fight in 100mn Vexor Navy Issues in the past.

The only “speed creep” has been in the form of Combat Interceptors gaining a +100% bonus to overheating microwarpdrive modules. Otherwise, here has been no “speed creep”.

this is fake bulshit. you’re looking at the equivalent thrust of a overheated 500mn MWD which does not align with the rest of your whine post because MWDs are disabled in the ESS.

AGAIN
THE MWD
IS
DISABLED
IN THE ESS

if you’re going to cry about something, at least know what you are crying about first. maybe then people will take your garbage even half-seriously. Just try fitting a 500mn MWD onto a Vexor Navy Issue (to hit your claimed 6000 m/s), and then fit anything else on it. Let’s see what you can come up with.

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Nullsec functions like nation states. A “roamer” is effectively an invader that tries to grab your resources or kill your dudes. Go to another country and start cutting trees, unearthing rocks and shooting people… and see how that turns out for you. If you rob a bank you’ll get swarmed by police in real life too. The solution is not to make it easier to rob banks. The solution is to teach criminals a lesson by excessive force.

Indeed. So perhaps you should increase you PVP competence before deciding to rob people in nullsec. Just fit yourself a ship with a large engagement profile and go practice in low and WH before you attempt to challenge the police forces of nullsec alliances.

Also, “roaming” is the practice of flying around systems looking for PVP. I know a few spots in nullsec where you could do so with relative impunity, but if you are even able to roam around freely that alliance doesn’t police it’s own space all that well.

Why should I care about the precious feelings of people trying to kill our dudes and rob our ESS? :rofl:

Go roam in lowsec and wspace to improve your PVP competence, and accept it’s not going to be any help in nullsec untill you are on the other side of the equation. I had a great fight brawl against a filamenting Moa who was messing with miners on an Athanor, but it was my choice to engage the guy solo without calling in the blob, because I felt low and WH improved my PVP game enough to take the fight solo. Same with the Machariel earlier that day, even though I lost that fight.

I’m getting tired of people who charactarize a tactically sound response as “cancerous” because it doesn’t give them the fair fight they were looking for.

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That’s not true, you have much more time, as you usually know from intel, that a fleet is roaming your space. You can also go inside the ESS first, and wait the enemy fleet there inside, or cloak up at the edge of the ESS sphere, then snipe the enemy fleet. You can also just form a gatecamp before they arrive. Possibilities are endless.

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So if the ratter feels bad about his bounties being stolen, should it be reverted? Think roamers have it in easy mode allready, they don’t even need to roam anymore,open agency, set destination.

And that’s why there’s no point in ratting anymore, for isk income at least. I realised in this week our pocket banks are empty and casual filament roamers just leave after they realise no one is ratting like before. Well done CCP you just killed content for both activities.

Not at all, I see my pocket emptier this week, rarely see banks with more than 5 mill, and I travel a lot.

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There is so much to unpack here that I’m not even sure that I want to. I know it’s not fair just to say that you don’t know what you’re talking about and leave, but I don’t feel like writing two thousand words to support my assertion either. I don’t know. Maybe I can just limit my arguments to first part of point 1.1, and then say that it would follow that I my issues with the rest of OP’s post are similar in size and degree.

I suppose you’re not wrong in saying that the nullsec blob is the result of sov mechanics. But you’d be right in much the same way that you’d be right in saying that highsec blobs are the result of players being incentivized to live and play in highsec. Sov mechanics do not directly result in blobbing. Players tend to blob because strength of numbers tend to offer an advantage in engagements. Naturally, this means that players blob in all security spaces (and in games that don’t have mechanics that force equal matchups in terms of team sizes). Moreover, you have renter groups (which exist because of, and play within, sov mechanics) which do little to no blobbing. In fact, many of them won’t even fight when neuts pass through. Given the opportunity, many of them simply turtle, and some of them will even let corp mates die rather than try fighting.

So, yeah, I guess you right. Sov mechanics do indirectly result in nullsec blobs. But that’s about as useful an observation as saying that people PvP/PvE/Gate Camp/Hot Drop/Structure Bash/whatever in nullsec because of sov mechanics. So… thanks for your insight… I guess. Now, if you would please excuse me, I’m going to go stand over there for a while.

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I apologize for mixing out-of-ESS description with in-ESS description
I meant:

  • Outside ESS, we have MWD, and there’s even fits like 500MN Vexor(And yes, it’s usable as a ratting ship, as it can speed-tank certain anoms while breaking no sweat. It’s not a PVP fit, but the speed makes it hard for even roamers to tackle)
  • Inside ESS, the speed creep continues in the forms of either dual prop or Sansha AB bonus ships
    So I apologize for the confusion, and please stop cursing.

Also by referring to it as “speed creep”, I didn’t mean for “speed getting higher and higher”, I’m solely meaning that brawling is basically non-existent and is replaced by kiting(Yes I know it is still useable in plexes or some places, but it’s rare in general ), and it would be nice to see both of them in the meta.

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By that I meant the alliance space in whole, not just regarding to myself.

Honestly you don’t need to, I’m just trying to take a few steps back and see how’s game like for everyone.

Can’t argue with that, my bad.

Professional squads filament in and go to nearest high-value ESS within 2mins, and they filament out after the hacking without taking any gate. That’s the problem I’m talking about
In worst case they run out of bubble and only leave the thief to be shot at, upon detecting large fleet landing on gate, they just disperse and wait for filament extraction
While another squad might have filamented in as we are speaking.

Yes but when you have dozens of systems, would you camp every one of them that has active ratter?

This is, honestly, usually used by the attackers, as they get to choose which ESS to enter and engage in, not you, the defender. And when you see like 5 tornados in ESS you don’t want to get inside with cruisers.
Yes, there have been successful defenses with Huginns and cloak nados, but the defense in general is tiring and often not fruitful.

They do not take gate after hacking an ESS, they just filament out, as ESS hacking gives no timer

In terms of ESS, yes. But for ordinary roamers, still the same

Hmmm I think is may vary from region to region, our area is still somewhat PVE active, at least not empty

Yes, indeed, this is the point I was trying to make.
And the point of this post is:
“Blob happens since this is beneficial, and it will likely not change.Meanwhile blob hurts roaming somewhat hard. ESS introduces another type of engagement for roamers to rise and shine, attackers are now having an upper hand in ESS hacking, and kiting is often replacing brawling, I’d be glad if brawling could come back more often by encouragement of game mechanics.”
ESS itself encouraged AB bonus ships and some sniping tactics to be used, it’s good, and I’m expecting also brawling to come back

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It was swarmed by roamers, was hard to defend, then ppl just changed activity or delayed ratting, as expected. I still laugh when I see guy filament in just to realise all ess are empty and start to trash talk in local xD

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welcome to nullsec in eve online since 2014?

if you think this is only a problem now, congrats on getting caught up with the rest of the players for several years.

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100% agreed on that, which is why I though CCP went a bit too harsh on ESS this time.
Defenders is just in such an disadvantage

Didn’t really get into PVP until recently, so please forgive me for being on board kinda late)
I got into a bit of a talk with the dudes I mentioned above, hence I promised to bring up a thread to elaborate on my opinions. Sorry if the topic is already stale for the community.

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Dual prop implies both AB and MWD, inside the influence of an ESS one of those modules is useless because it’s disabled. You might want to rethink your post.

We could always go back to the old days where you could run multiple prop mods simultaneously and achieve ridiculous speed, or even go to plaid.
ezgif-1-e509772d3966

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Brawling hardly exists for 1 reason and 1 reason alone, “the blob” one does not let them selves be tackled when they have to then fight 1v20, if people had honor and didn’t pile on a single player there would be a lot more brawling.

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