There is no CONCORD in null, and null is (largely) conquerable sov, both of which make it radically different than hisec. Justifying a change to hisec by comparing it to nullsec in this manner is a total non sequitur; the comparisons don’t match up at all.
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There is no CONCORD in null, and null is (largely) conquerable sov, both of which make it radically different than hisec. Justifying a change to hisec by comparing it to nullsec in this manner is a total non sequitur; the comparisons don’t match up at all.
Null also has much more resources compared to population. The price of the easiness of making isk, where you can have 50 rorquals and 10 supercarriers merrily making hundreds of billions a day per system, is no concord. Highsec has no static sites or anomalies, capitals will take awhile to warp, unless you weaken the ship with hyperspatial rigs and modules, and the sole comparative ore site, the moon field, can be destroyed, stolen, or harrassed by gankers/bumpers.
So the space is different, does not mean a ship needs to be further nerfed because of it. You want limited access to only a few highsec systems, eternal suspect timer etc, all that will do is allow null groups to store their ships in specialized highsec pockets in deepsafe logoff or citadels, it won’t allow highsec residents to enjoy capital ships at all.
I think this is the singular point where you differ from most of the community at large (myself included):
Capital ships are not something to be enjoyed in the safety of hisec by everyone.
You should either need to put in hard work to earn the right to operate them in the relative safety of hisec, or operate them there at great risk. (Or just operate them out of the safety of hisec entirely…)
What you’re proposing violates this basic understanding.
No, you said, and I quote:
This was clearly false, and you had no idea what you were talking about.
The proper response is “Oh, that was my mistake then, I guess they do use Smart(stealth)bombers”. Not “They still used catalysts, though, so let me avoid admitting i was wrong and concentrate on that.”
So you would be okay with giving suspect timer from undocking, everywhere, including Hisec, Null and lowsec? Cause that isnt a nerf to hisec, because it applies everywhere.
The question isnt whether its doable, its whether its reasonable.
Ive taken a look at your entire killboard, and youve never even been in a fleet over 100 people. For the entire year that youve been playing, youve never been in a fleet over 70 people.
And yet youre saying its reasonable for someone to bring together 300 players to take down a super?
What do you mean by “Major ore”? It takes anywhere from 6 days to 54 days for a moon mining station to extract the chunk from the moon. Do you think that people are honestly going to sit around, doing nothing, for 6 days, and only use their rorquals and mine moon ore? Do you seriously think that the moon mining, currently makes up 90% of the ore mined right now in hisec?
Remember, the general consensus is that a belt replenishes moon ore at around 600k m3 per belt a day, while 6 days, the minimum for ore mining, gives only a maximum of 2.8 million m3 of ore. So thats around 3 million m3, per belt, with most systems having 2-3+, versus 2.8 million m3 per moon, and only once every six days.
So please, tell us your logic behind your claim. Thanks.
No, i dont think hisec should be nerfed as much as possible and never be buffed. But i dont think it should be buffed to be on the same level, or even remotely similar level, as nullsec. Which you have already admitted you want to see.
So thank you for misrepresenting my position. Is that the only way you can win an argument? by straw-manning my position?
Actually, the 50 rorquals in hisec, will also be making hundreds of billions a day per system.
You fail to realize that the reason Rorquals in nullsec are only on for a couple hours a week at most, due to the fact that the player must actively be at their keyboards in order to prevent from being hotdropped, ganked, or lose their mining drones.
In Hisec, its far more easier to AFK mine, meaning that players will be able to stay in the fields for more prolongued periods of time. This will balance out the total amount of ISK players will generate.
The fact that you dont understand this, is why your idea is bad.
You should either need to put in hard work to earn the right to operate them in the relative safety of hisec
I agree, which is why I’m in favor of a CONCORD license registration fee for your capital ship, payable in plex, or in your case since you requested it, in isk in order to act as a sink.
So you would be okay with giving suspect timer from undocking, everywhere, including Hisec, Null and lowsec? Cause that isnt a nerf to hisec, because it applies everywhere.
It is a nerf to highsec, because suspect timer everywhere means no concord, which is one of the defining distinctions between highsec and the other areas of the game, highsec is a limited pvp zone, the others are full pvp zones.
The question isnt whether its doable, its whether its reasonable.
It’s reasonable to expect to field a significant ganking fleet if you wish to kill a 10+ Billion isk hull, plus fit, plus CONCORD license fee, which likely will be another 10B in plex/isk. You won’t be killing that with 2 catalysts, that’s reasonable.
Ive taken a look at your entire killboard, and youve never even been in a fleet over 100 people. For the entire year that youve been playing, youve never been in a fleet over 70 people.
I’ve been playing for longer, this was the latest of many toons I had over the years, I personally flew in burn jita events too, I remember the round the clock rotations of ganks in coercers, if goons can do that to gank freighters, you can do it to gank supers. Besides, a new subcap ship designed specifically to maximize damage to capitals in suicide attacks, whether it be in nullsec or highsec, can work to help balance the new firepower introduced in highsec.
So please, tell us your logic behind your claim. Thanks.
Major mining will be and is done in moon belts. You can mine in other ways, normal belts or emerging conduit site ores, but the actual m3 is tiny, and in a rorqual, it will be a hassle to mine. If you have a problem with lots of mining, then attack the athanors that produce the belts.
But i dont think it should be buffed to be on the same level, or even remotely similar level, as nullsec. Which you have already admitted you want to see.
Highsec is civilization, you do not get rich in New York City by discovering gold, or hunting down outlaws/pirates for bounty money, but you get rich slowly, either working a job, or a mission in the capsuleers case, or quickly, on the stock market, or in the markets in the capsuleers case. Nullsec players have gotten so good at the game that they effectively created a concord system in the form of a capital umbrella.
Keep nullsec the way it is, however capsuleers that enjoy the concord umbrella also deserve to enjoy the toys that have been given to other regions. We need to put in more work and be more creative to earn our fortune, but a player should be able to spend the entirety of their gameplay from the start to the end in highsec, this concept of you leaving highsec to enjoy the endgame in null is outdated and harmful to many casual PVE players and others who enjoy the slow game.
Actually, the 50 rorquals in hisec, will also be making hundreds of billions a day per system.
You fail to realize that the reason Rorquals in nullsec are only on for a couple hours a week at most, due to the fact that the player must actively be at their keyboards in order to prevent from being hotdropped, ganked, or lose their mining drones.
In Hisec, its far more easier to AFK mine, meaning that players will be able to stay in the fields for more prolongued periods of time. This will balance out the total amount of ISK players will generate.
The fact that you dont understand this, is why your idea is bad.
You keep assuming that I do not understand, but it is you who does not. Think of a sieged rorqual, now think of 3 machariels bumping it, see how easy it is to counter afk rorqual pilots? You can gank the drones, which are weak in ehp. You can shoot the athanor that makes the ore, lots of options, you have more firepower and isk making, but you also have many means of attacking it, which is good. And making money is not bad, more wealth is good for the game, so long as it is spent, destroyed, or expanded into an ever growing group of players.
Actually right now the issue is that people are making too much money and your idea would only make it worse. We don’t need to copy the problems in nullsec isk-generation into highsec. The only reason to want capitals in highsec is greed. The current tools are more than enough for what highsec offers.
lol dude, keep accusing me, it’s all good, just makes you look even more stupid.
Still here though…
Your idea stinks
Slapping a monthly fee on something doesn’t make it any more risky to use, it just makes it more expensive to use. Your change would end up massively favoring large blocs over smaller groups or individuals.
Do you really want The Imperium to rule over all of New Eden? I mean, think about it. Someone launches a structure they don’t approve of, bam, wardec and drop a hundred titans on it to insta-blap it as soon as the timers allow.
In Hisec.
Doesn’t sound like a particularly balanced way to structure EvE if you ask me.
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been watching this for a bit…
And despite Naarian being more than a little bit cracked in the head…
Rorq’s, ban Excavators from Empire space (this means losec and highsec), or make them a Concord offense to deploy in HS.
Also the PANIC module should require your safety to be RED also, or be banned from Empire Space(losec and highsec).
This way they can use only regular mining drones, and they are at risk to being ganked.
Now as to Capital ships…no way, Look at PIRAT and CODE and the nullblocs, letting Combat CAPS into HS without some serious nerfs or crimewatch control would be a very bad idea for everyone.
So what about Criminals. They are flagged 24/7 while in Hisec.
No one said you should be able to kill with 2 catalysts. You cant even kill a freighter with 2 catalysts.
But spending 500 billion isk to take down 32 billion isk, is unreasonable, do you not agree?
Why do you feel the need to keep misrepresenting my position?
Thats the point though. Goons is the largest alliance in the game. The entire game. And even they were unable to gather 300 players for ganks.
You keep saying its not unreasonable. And yet it never happens. Ive never found it happen before. Therefore, it is unreasonable.
So you want to introduce new ships, in order to balance out your own proposition?
Now youve admitted that your own proposal is unbalanced. Youve defeat your own argument. Thanks for that.
I know you claim that. I want you to prove it.
You seem to be unable to understand this, so ill take it slowly, yet again. Lets take this one question at a time, since you seem to constantly miss the point.
Do you think there is a difference, and should be a difference, between Nullsec and Hisec, whether it be a lack of concord in Nullsec, etc? Yes, or No?
And how many times do you think players who mine in hisec islands get ganked or bumped? How many times do you think regular players in remote sections of hisec space, get ganked or bumped? How many times do you have to be bumped, in order to offset a person who can only spend 5 hours a week mining in nullsec, whereas you can mine every day in hisec with little to no fear of losing anything substantial?
Have you considered any of these questions?
The fact that there is a counter, is no different from saying that you can get 300 people to gank a ship and take it down. The reality of the situation, is that most people do not put the effort into ganking or bumping. There are only a small group of people who do.
You have to look at the reality, not the possibility. Yes, its possible to get 1000, 10,000 players together to gank a single target in hisec. In reality, its never happened before.
And when 5 out of the top 10 regions of mining, are in hisec, despite the fact that nullsec outnumbers hisec two to one, there is already a large amount of mining being done in hisec right now, even though mining barges are far far easier to take down, than rorquals.
There is so many things that you dont understand. The moment you can actually address these problems, is the only moment in time that your idea becomes feasible. But so far, youve done a poor attempt at replying to some of my points, let alone most of them.
For veterans, sure. Guess who this hurts? New players. Casual players.
I am loving this, I truly am, @Sabus_Narian, You are unable to even grasp the actual point of half of what your saying, you did not have other toons, your complete lack of understanding of the most basic principles of eve online proves as much.
There is no way, that CCP will say “oh yes, Sabus is right, everyone in high sec should be able to have null sec content, oh we need to make new ships to make this happen” - Are you out of your mind?
What on earth would be the point of null sec is all null sec content was accessable in high sec? The whole point of eve online is “risk vs reward” not “high sec for max rewards”.
You cannot refute any of his comments with tripping yourself up and you accuse me of being “tiggered?” - If you actually try to calm down and think about what your proposing, you’d realise how stupid this idea truly is
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Simple I am right.
All of those arguments are defending player laziness. My foundational stance has always been giving equal opportunity to begin and compete in the game, if one side succeeds, it is from wit, strategy, and perseverance. Having one region of the game have access to ships that do immense damage, with immense hitpoints, and furthermore with jump drive technology, while one faction is limited to battleships with warp drive only capability, with the sole exception of black ops, then I have issue.
If you are so against capitals of all sizes in highsec, then you must be for their complete elimination in the game. That is the only way to balance the scales. However elimination of all capitals will impact more players negatively than introducing the ships to highsec.
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Everyone one of your posts has been lies, it’s that simple, we saw through you from the start, all you want is fleets of Rorq’s so you can fleece new players even more and get a bigger wallet.
The above image proves as much. I feel very bad for you.
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