Id say it doesnt help your cause and doesnt look good for you when we constantly respond, but you fail to respond back.
Doesn’t matter if it does not help my argument, if there are flaws your arguments expose them and then they can be corrected, to make my proposal stronger.
But youre saying that if its just 0.5-0.7, nullsec will be able to lockdown all 0.5-0.7 security space?
I don’t support a restricted release, it is either full highsec access or no change, partial release locks down the valuable areas of highsec 0.5 moon mining, chokepoints etc, and gives no benefit to the rest of the space. That comment means that due to NPC station existence, highsec cannot be completely conquered, you may have a harder time if you constantly lose, but you will never be able to be kicked down further than living out of NPC stations.
Yes, i do know what the devs think, because they already responded. Go read that post, it was made by a dev and posted by a dev.
I don’t see how that attacks my argument, or supports yours. Concord is there to punish, and they punish, and yes with enough effort anything can be destroyed in the game, I don’t deny that. However you complain that it will be harder to gank capitals, in which case I reply with harden up and get more fleet members if you want to gank, ganking takes work and shouldn’t be made easy for you.
This statement tells me that you aren’t all that familiar with hisec manufacturing. Margins are exceedingly slim, and in many cases, what you described would shut down an otherwise profitable venture.
That is the fault of game mechanics, nullsec gets a vast buff to reprocessing etc, making them more efficient in industry. As for margins many items already are unprofitable, builders can react and adapt to the market very well, they will not have issue.
This is exactly what “shutting down hisec” means. If you make it unprofitable, you drive your competition out of business. Drive enough competitors out of business, and suddenly you have the situation with the nullsec blocs all over again, only with hisec manufacturing and trading. Can you imagine an EvE where every item for sale in Jita was priced exclusively by three or four primary entities? It would be a nightmare.
I disagree, if it becomes unprofitable, then nullsec can sell cheaper yes, but the prices will never rise above the margin where highsec NPC station building becomes profitable, so highsec is not shutdown. Paying 5% more for items will be unnoticed by the vast majority of the players, and that is assuming that highsec is only able to exclusively use NPC stations.
Can you imagine an EvE where every item for sale in Jita was priced exclusively by three or four primary entities? It would be a nightmare.
Won’t ever happen, and if someone tries it through market manipulation they can never go above the NPC station industry profit margin, or else they get undercut by NPC station builders.
Except that the nullsec blocs would pretty much laugh off something as trivial as wardec fees and keep vaporizing any non-bloc Anathor that pops up before it could even pay itself off in moon mining sales. It’s like Walmart undercutting their competitors: sure, it costs them money in the short term, but in the long term it puts competition out of business. Plus…phat Anathor kills that everyone in the bloc will want to be on.
Vast majority of athanors never get attacked in highsec, while there will be more firepower yes, you can still defend them, the fees still add into the cost for the attacker, and you can batphone their rivals to help you defend the structures if you want. Remember highsec gets capitals too, its not unrealistic for a good Samaritan group that has large stores of capital ships offer their services to defend any highsecer who gets attacked by nullsecers etc.
Don’t turn New Eden into Buy 'N Large…
It won’t, and WALL-E was a great movie.
I don’t get why, when there is already an accepted problem with cap/super proliferation in the game, when we are seeing the detrimental effects in all sorts of ways, the devs would want to make it worse?
The rationale is similar to the MAD doctrine of nuclear powers. If capitals exist, then the more you have the more powerful you are. Under game theory, different players will want to obtain the respective firepower and technology of their rivals, so that they can reach a state of balance, because if they do not, then the weaker will inevitably be attacked by the stronger.
Since completely removing capitals from the game will harm ccp, in mass protests, player quits, and issue with nullsec population, the existence of these ships remains. However if you only allow a certain group to have these ‘nuclear weapons’, then they will inevitably be superior, in firepower, financial income etc. If highsec however is able to have these weapons and tools, then not only can the map be balanced, but nullsec may even get additional content, on behalf of invading highsec forces, which currently almost never happens.
That seems completely counter productive.
It’s the only logical way to balance, if you do not wish to remove capitals from the game, which is another method.
Apparently its also a good thing.
It will be a good thing that mineral prices will drop, and that your battleship may only cost 10 million isk to buy in the future, when all hisec ore fields are barren because of the 10 rorquals per system that undock and empty it at the beginning of downtime.
That way, even new players can purchase battleships with ease!
You have moon ores, and if that is not the case you can always have missions in order to make money, you are assuming that players will not pursue the most profitable avenue of isk making. Finally, if prices get cheaper, isk has more purchasing power, and if more isk is injected, prices rise. Due to this, the market will balance itself out, you won’t this post apocalyptic situation that you imagine.
Yup, likewise i bet he will never understand why so many people move to places like the Mogul trading citadel in amarr, or the Tranquility tower in perimiter, when its actually a jump away, and therefore a massive inconvenience for traders to move large amounts of materials to. That extra few percent is huge, to serious traders.
They go there because its slightly cheaper to place buy and sell orders, you think that I do not know this. However if that avenue is not available, then they can simply place their orders in Jita or Amarr for slightly highser sell prices, and slightly lower buy prices, balancing out the loss of cheaper taxes. People have been trading in NPC stations since 2003, they haven’t forgotten how to do so since citadels came out.
I disagree with your conclusion, but kudos for getting the movie reference.
I disagree with your conclusion, but kudos for getting the movie reference.
Hey, our disagreements make our positions stronger, I welcome yours.
Ratting in high sec is not a rival for ratters in null, they are not in the same league, one is the kiddie league and one is the pros.
The kiddie league doesn’t need capital ships.
Ratting in high sec is not a rival for ratters in null, they are not in the same league, one is the kiddie league and one is the pros.
The concept that nullsec is the ‘superior’ region needs to go away, the majority of paying players are in highsec, highsec is only a different region with different gameplay styles, it is equal to nullsec.
The kiddie league doesn’t need capital ships.
Highsec needs capital ships, because without them this distinction that nullsec is ‘superior’ will continue to be a thing, which harms the game.
And this right here is what I think underlies your drive to have capital ships in hisec.
Nullsec is better than Empire space in almost every quantifiable sense.
Highest paying mission agents? Nullsec
Most valuable minerals? Nullsec
Highest bounty NPCs? Nullsec
Ability to conquer and own space? Nullsec
Ability to upgrade space and build infrastructure? Nullsec
Ability to use AoE effects like bubbles? Nullsec
No silly Crimewatch timers to worry about? Nullsec
(Some, but not all, of these apply to J-space as well obviously)
The only thing that hisec has going for it over nullsec is CONCORD.
The reason why so many players live primarily in hisec isn’t because it’s better, it’s because it’s easier. And hisec being easy is no motivation whatsoever to complicate it.
The reason why so many players live primarily in hisec isn’t because it’s better , it’s because it’s easier . And hisec being easy is no motivation whatsoever to complicate it.
I disagree, many players don’t have time to have to participate in fleet defense, or want to deal with petty drama and politics in null. Some like to log in, do something for abit, and log off. That player deserves as good an experience as the uber 6 hour a day nullsec player.
No they don’t. Your rewards would be proportionate to the risk and investment you have.
You aren’t correcting them, though.
That’s not what I asked.
You said, that nullsec can lockdown 0.5, and I’m assuming, to 0.7 under the idea that Bronson Hughes mentioned.
If nullsec can lockdown 0.5 to 0.7, what makes you think they couldnt lockdown most, if not all of hisec?
Not even you, with 1000+ members in your alliance, have been apart of a fleet of more than a hundred players.
And yet you’re saying that 300 players being required for ganking, shouldn’t be a problem?
Remember, I was only talking about supercarriers. Titans have even more EHP, and would require 600, 700 players, to gank, probably more. Definately more if you include implants. We have never seen so many players outside massive engagements in nullsec. This rarely happens in nullsec, and you’re expecting it to happen in hisec.
I dont think there has ever been a time where one side gathered 600 players to do anything in hisec in the last 5 years.
It’s completely unreasonable. It’s never happened before in my 7 years of playing. And that’s why what I posted contradicts your views, because this would make titans effectively ungankable.
This is so stupid I cant stop laughing.
First of all, this is not the MAD doctrine. The MAD doctrine, is based on the acquiring and not the number of nukes. If your opponent has a thousand, nay, a million nukes, it doesnt matter if you only have a hundred nukes. Those hundred nukes is deterrent enough, because even a single nuke going off in a capital city kills millions, and makes that area unlivable for decades, hundreds of years. Every single infrastructure that you put money in, becomes wasted. The area becomes a toxic wasteland. You only need enough nukes to make the opponent territory unlivable, which means that depending on the size, even a single nuke will do.
Secondly, there requires no balance for something that cannot exist. Supers cannot exist in hisec, and therefore require no balance with nullsec.
What firepower. What are you talking about? You cant bring supers into hisec. It doesnt matter if I have a billion titans with a billion alts sitting outside a gate in lowsec. The hisec player is unaffected.
Yes, and new players and smaller corps will have a tough time competing with larger blocks who destroy their athanors and take all the moons. Which is kinda the point. Remember, moon mining is 0.5 space only. Your idea harms and hurts new players and smaller groups.
Only if demand outweighs supply. The problem is, it won’t. Because it never has.
If you knew this, then you would know how important even a percentage is, and you wouldnt have said something as stupid as saying that the 2 to 4% doesnt make a difference.
Less time required is a form of easy. Less drama is a form of easy. And those things are provided in equal measure by the umbrella of CONCORD and the lack of many of the benefits of nullsec.
I don’t think your statement is in disagreement with mine, even though you don’t seem to realize it.
Hisec is great for players with a limited time to log in and play. But this style of play truly excludes you from the very best this game has to offer…as it should…
And I would know, I’ve been one of these players for a long time. My hayday of nullsec warfare and roaming losec gangs is long past. I have no delusions of ever flying a Titan or a Supercarrier. I may get bored one day and dork around in losec with a Dread or Carrier, but probably not. But those are my choices, the consequence of my limited amount of time to dedicate to the game.
That’s not what I asked.
You said, that nullsec can lockdown 0.5, and I’m assuming, to 0.7 under the idea that Bronson Hughes mentioned.
If nullsec can lockdown 0.5 to 0.7, what makes you think they couldnt lockdown most, if not all of hisec?
His idea is to limit capitals to certain sec status, 0.5 to 0.7, and have them perma suspect. If that happens then yes, nullsec will have undue control, if the capitals are all across highsec without suspect status, then that will be more balanced.
Not even you, with 1000+ members in your alliance, have been apart of a fleet of more than a hundred players.
And yet you’re saying that 300 players being required for ganking, shouldn’t be a problem?
Remember, I was only talking about supercarriers. Titans have even more EHP, and would require 600, 700 players, to gank, probably more. Definately more if you include implants. We have never seen so many players outside massive engagements in nullsec. This rarely happens in nullsec, and you’re expecting it to happen in hisec.
I dont think there has ever been a time where one side gathered 600 players to do anything in hisec in the last 5 years.
It’s completely unreasonable. It’s never happened before in my 7 years of playing. And that’s why what I posted contradicts your views, because this would make titans effectively ungankable.
Yes, it should be very difficult to gank a titan, you pay a significant amount for it, why should it be ganked by 10 people? I have no problem with titans being near impossible to gank, its balanced because of their cost, and niche uses in highsec.
If only we could affect any of this to begin with. Ah, well. CCP quadrant experiment: go!
If only we could affect any of this to begin with. Ah, well. CCP quadrant experiment: go!
We can always suggest great ideas, we are very high quality game testers that give suggestions free of charge! And I like this Quadrant development style, let’s see what we have in store on January 16th!