Allow Capital Ships, Supercarriers, and Titans in Highsec

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
361

Less time required is a form of easy. Less drama is a form of easy. And those things are provided in equal measure by the umbrella of CONCORD and the lack of many of the benefits of nullsec.

That statement cancels itself out, yes there is inherently less drama and time required, however the cost is as you say, lack of benefits such as Colossal Asteroid Belts or Sanctums. Highsec lacks these, so while it is buffed compared to nullsec in the regards you mentioned, it is already countered by the defects I mentioned. The issue of this thread is the buff of nullsec and other areas with capital ships, which highsec has none of.

I don’t think your statement is in disagreement with mine, even though you don’t seem to realize it.

How so?

Hisec is great for players with a limited time to log in and play. But this style of play truly excludes you from the very best this game has to offer… as it should …

I disagree. While I will agree that truly high end gameplay such as alliance leadership, Fleet Commander, and huge battles will likely be out of reach for someone who casually players, the other things are not and should not be out of reach. An income to improve your ships and character, content that is fresh and ever changing, and plenty of ability to invest wealth into powerful ships such as capitals should all be accessible to highsec casual players.

And I would know, I’ve been one of these players for a long time. My hayday of nullsec warfare and roaming losec gangs is long past. I have no delusions of ever flying a Titan or a Supercarrier. I may get bored one day and dork around in losec with a Dread or Carrier, but probably not. But those are my choices, the consequence of my limited amount of time to dedicate to the game.

Well I’m fighting for you to be able to enjoy those ships once again. While you may not agree with me, I hope to see you enjoying all the ships that this game has to offer. Don’t say that it is a consequence of your limited time for gameplay, limited time or not, you deserve a great gameplay experience.

362

What you’re fighting for is to make capital ships a required part of owning or operating a structure in hisec. You’re fighting to raise the cost of entry to that aspect of the game, making it less available to new players and small groups.

I understand that you’re trying to buff hisec and I respect that, but if what you proposed came to pass, you’d likely crush it instead.

1 Like
363

What you’re fighting for is to make capital ships a required part of owning or operating a structure in hisec. You’re fighting to raise the cost of entry to that aspect of the game, making it less available to new players and small groups.

Yes, releasing capitals will make for keeping structures if they are attacked a harder task. However there are many structures in highsec, of which the great majority will likely fall to any attack that would occur right now, since they are in alt corps and owned by people with little to no means of defending them. I’m sure mercenary groups will spring up to offer structure defense services, and it will make for more structure deaths and thus stimulate the economy.

I understand that you’re trying to buff hisec and I respect that, but if what you proposed came to pass, you’d likely crush it instead.

Thank you for respecting my stance! As for the crushing highsec, my ideas may change a few norms and ways of doing this currently in highsec, but by no means will it crush highsec.

364

So you would be okay with limitng caps to 0.5-0.7, as long as they didnt have perma-suspect?

10 People? You cant even gank a jump freighter with 10 people.

Lets not be dishonest here. by bringing up a number that doesnt even work for ships that already are allowed in hisec that are 1/5th the cost of a titan.

But just to get you on record. Youre saying its okay to have to spend 1000 players to gank a Titan in hisec?

1 Like
365

So you would be okay with limitng caps to 0.5-0.7, as long as they didnt have perma-suspect?

I wouldn’t be, my position is that capitals should be allowed across all of highsec, from 0.5 to 1.0

But just to get you on record. Youre saying its okay to have to spend 1000 players to gank a Titan in hisec?

Yes it’s ok to need that many players to gank a titan, because to pay that much for a ship, you need to form a grand fleet to gank it, or kill it through clever use of game mechanics, for example cloaky ship alongside the ship if it is smartbombing in highsec or flagging him for suspect etc. Same logic applies for example killing a t1 industrial versus a blockade runner, its harder to gank the blockade runner than the t1 industrial.

366

Sure. So whats your argument against keeping them in 0.5-0.7?

The amount of gankers needed to kill a jump freighter is 20-30. Jump freighters cost 10 billion isk right now. So a carrier should only take 2-3 people to gank, and a supercarrier only maybe 40-50, right?

367

Sure. So whats your argument against keeping them in 0.5-0.7?

Several arguments. The first is transportation, limiting them to only a few sec status’s means moving them around will be a massive annoyance for no reason, and it’ll be a penalty to highsec players. The second is content, you cannot use them in systems that are higher security, so all the content above the certain security is restricted for capital ships, another nerf to highsec. And finally, if you complain about nullsec having influence, your proposal will ensure total domination. 0.5 systems are where moon mining can occur, nullsec can easily colonize many 0.5 systems, and highsec cannot mobilize to stop them, because they can’t travel, they can’t use their capital ships across highsec to make money, and they can’t store them, because instead of having all of highsec filled with fortizars and keepstars, you can only have the ships in those certain systems, which are likely to be heavily controlled. Completely bad all around, it has to be all of highsec.

The amount of gankers needed to kill a jump freighter is 20-30. Jump freighters cost 10 billion isk right now. So a carrier should only take 2-3 people to gank, and a supercarrier only maybe 40-50, right?

No, because the supercarrier has the hitpoints across the game. I’m for equality among the areas, jump freighters have the same HP in nullsec as they do in highsec. If you have issue with ganking capitals, then propose drastic nerfs to their hitpoints across the game. Also a jump freighter has a huge cargo, a very powerful feature, hence its low hitpoints.

368

Why are we even entertaining the idea of putting capitals in highsec? It’s s hit idea that will only have terrible consequences to the game and economy in highsec. No matter how hard-headed the OP is, it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

369

It’s s hit idea that will only have terrible consequences to the game and economy in highsec.

Care to elaborate?

370

They have been told to you time and time again, but you just shrug them off like it doesn’t matter.

371

They have been told to you time and time again, but you just shrug them off like it doesn’t matter.

I have not shrugged them off I’m countered all their arguments and shown how they can be countered by players. I want to hear your arguments against this proposal.

372

All you’ve done is either dismiss them as being not important enough to warrant worry or only tangentially take them into account before jumping into some other part that you think matters more.

Highsec is not equal to null or W-space and should stay that way. If you want to play with the big toys, put on your man-pants and leave highsec. It’s a much better game out there than it is in empire-space.

373

Highsec is not equal to null or W-space and should stay that way.

So the majority of the players should play an inferior game?

It’s a much better game out there than it is in empire-space.

Seems that empire space needs a buff then.

374

Highsec doesn’t need caps, kindly stop posting.

375

Highsec doesn’t need caps, kindly stop posting.

Why not?

376

That is something you choose to do, not something that you are required to do. It doesn’t mean that you are entitled to the same rewards (including the ships) as people living in nullsec of wormhole-space.

Eve is what you make of it. Each space has their limititations,rules,risks and rewards. They are all there on purpose. If you choose to play in highsec, you will play by the rules and limitations given by that area with the risk and reward at a suitable level for you.

Eve being a better game outside of highsec doesn’t mean that highsec needs a buff. The parts of the game that make Eve so different from other MMO’s and still going after so many years requires you to risk things. Risk your assets, your time, your trust. What you want is to get all the rewards without putting anything on the line.
Most people live in highsec, because they aren’t ready to risk things. They are afraid of the rabbit-hole. Eve has the ability to swallow your life and not everyone likes looking into the deep end of the pool. If you are given everything without taking a chance, it doesn’t have the same hook. It doesn’t feel as enjoyable.

There is nothing in highsec that requires or benefits from having capitals. It will only cause issues to the economy, suppress PVP and allow bigger groups to kill off smaller ones with little resistance possible.

You seem to somehow think that bigger alliances from null or low wouldn’t take advantage of the ability to use their capitals in highsec. You’d get crushed in short order. You have no idea how to use capitals or what they can do in capable hands. You are asking for a open doors day at the local prison without having any idea what that actually would mean.

1 Like
377

That is something you choose to do, not something that you are required to do. It doesn’t mean that you are entitled to the same rewards (including the ships) as people living in nullsec of wormhole-space.

I disagree, each region of space should be different yes, with different rewards and wealth available. However to say that because one area is inferior that it must always remain so is false, highsec used to be much worse in the past, concord was destroyable/avoidable/tankable, and wardecs were tied not to structures, but only on the basis of player versus npc corp, allowing for a near guarantee of corp destruction as the corp grows large enough to be noticed. Yet all that was changed, and it made highsec much better.

Eve is what you make of it. Each space has their limititations,rules,risks and rewards. They are all there on purpose. If you choose to play in highsec, you will play by the rules and limitations given by that area with the risk and reward at a suitable level for you.

Players have great ability to encourage positive change, if something is not working out, players should speak out and state the issue, so that it may be corrected.

Eve being a better game outside of highsec doesn’t mean that highsec needs a buff.

The majority of players, both Alpha and Omega, live in highsec. This means that under your logic, the majority of the game should willingly deal with skewed rewards and content. Highsec being the home of the majority of players, needs much more attention and effort being put into it than what is had currently.

The parts of the game that make Eve so different from other MMO’s and still going after so many years requires you to risk things. Risk your assets, your time, your trust. What you want is to get all the rewards without putting anything on the line.

Nothing wrong with wanting to risk it all to make your own little fiefdom in nullsec, that is one of the great parts of nullsec. Highsec has no sov claiming, capital ships are not sov, only tools, I seek a balance and equal usage of tools.

Most people live in highsec, because they aren’t ready to risk things. They are afraid of the rabbit-hole. Eve has the ability to swallow your life and not everyone likes looking into the deep end of the pool. If you are given everything without taking a chance, it doesn’t have the same hook. It doesn’t feel as enjoyable.

Some people enjoy the slow accumulation of wealth and improvement of their character, and many factions have ambitions to go to nullsec to invade, they simply lack the manpower and resources, hence why they live in highsec. Highsec residents gladly have fun and take chances, whether it is in pvp, a market gamble, or a shortcut through lowsec.

There is nothing in highsec that requires or benefits from having capitals. It will only cause issues to the economy, suppress PVP and allow bigger groups to kill off smaller ones with little resistance
possible.

Everything benefits from having capitals, if you were to removing capitals from nullsec, most things will see a decline, since the superior tool is now no longer accessible. The economy always balances itself out, there will be no crash, pvp will increase not decrease with more capitals, and small groups can unite into coalitions or hire additional hands to help defend their structures, or follow the equally valid strategy of avoiding structures until they are strong enough to defend them.

You seem to somehow think that bigger alliances from null or low wouldn’t take advantage of the ability to use their capitals in highsec. You’d get crushed in short order. You have no idea how to use capitals or what they can do in capable hands. You are asking for a open doors day at the local prison without having any idea what that actually would mean.

Try to take advantage naturally, will highsec simply allow it to happen? No. More conflict will result, making the sandbox better for all involved. I have a quite good idea on how to use capitals, and I fail to understand your analogy about an open door prison.

378

Just for the record, been playing EVEN since it first came out, but it’s been more off than on, but for me, I love high sec because I don’t have the time to go low sec or null sec most of the time let alone fleet up for 2hours; I enjoy leveling my toons up at a slow pace because that’s just how it in in Eve when you training to get into bigger ships battlecrusiers and beyond.

High sec is a great choice to be for new recruitment and full feel for the highest technical space game ever, to have caps in high sec seems it would just kill ALL of that and the entire reason why CCP made it that way.

I won’t reply to this thread after this but I’ll put it like this, I’ll quit the game if caps get out into high sec! :+1::smirk:

1 Like
379

Nothing in that proves that it’s a good idea to add capitals into highsec. You feeling like you are being left out is not a valid reason to allow them in highsec. If you wish to use the big toys, go to low,null or wormhole-space.

Having capitals in highsec is not a “positive change”.

If you agree that different parts of space need to be different, then you already agreed that there is a valid reason to keep capitals out of highsec. Having the most players is not a valid reason to break the balance that currently exists.

Balance already exists in Eve currently. The game is not meant to be equal. You wanting to have everything is not a valid reason to do this.

Capitals belong in null and low. Of course removing them would be a bad idea. Just like adding them to highsec is a bad idea. There is already an issue with too much isk being generated and not enough stuff being destroyed and you want to add these things to the area with the least chance of you losing your ship and allowing for 100% safety in your isk-making? Of course the economy would go to hell.
Capitals will have a chilling effect in PVP in highsec due to their tank and damage, not to mention FAXes. Allowing capitals (I’m not even touching supers or titans, those would just be insane in highsec) would mean that any big fight would automatically mean capitals are on the field and then it’s a matter of who has more of them and they win. You have no idea about how to fight with capitals or against them or what kind of effect they will have in PVP. Less things are destroyed = Less things need to be purchased = Economy takes a dive.

There is no “allowing it to happen”. You would have no way to fight back. Any big group would come in with their capital and supercapital -fleets and would wipe the floor with highsec as nobody in there is willing to fleet up or group up enough to put up a fight. There is no organization in high that would stand a chance against nullsec, especially when it comes to capitals or supers. Sure there will be more conflict once when nullsec comes to play but after that? Less destruction as people will lose their ships less often in PVE or PVP, less pvp in general as there is now a minimum amount you have to be able to field to break a capital while having more isk-generation would cause more issues with the economy than there already are.

Your idea boils down to “Waaaa, I want what they have” without proof that it would be good for the game beyond " I think" You want all the nice things without having to risk anything for them. Entitlement is not a very good reasoning for breaking the game more than it already is.

380

not Rorqs … they are nice targets in LS :wink:

i dont have any … i dont want any …

i think its a bad idea … leave this stuff where it is …

JuuR