I wasn’t trying to justify Carriers and Dreads as a viable alternative to freighters for hisec hauling, I was using them as examples to magnify just how obscenely safe hisec Supers and Titans would be. But reading back over what I typed, I can easily see why you interpreted it that way. Apologies for the confusion.
I think the EHP pool of Carriers and Dreads would make them acceptable for use in hisec on a limited basis, but not in a way that they could be used to haul goods end-to-end to or from major trade hubs. Once they start taking on the role of freighters in hisec…something is horribly broken.
It’s not just about hauling, it’s about everything else too. Buffer tanked Rorquals for mining, buffer tanked carriers/dreads for combat PvE (until you can afford a buffer tanked supercap). Now you no longer have to care about PvP risk when AFK farming 23/7, which is the OP’s goal.
Rorqs, Titans and Supers have no place in hisec. Period, full stop. I think we’re in perfect agreement here. Their capabilities and defenses are simply too great for the current balance of things.
Dreads for PvE in hisec would probably be far less efficient than a Marauder or maybe even T1 battleships. Worse application, much longer travel times, 5 minute siege cycles, etc. If someone wanted to waste their time PvE-ing in a dread, I’d see that as increasing safety at the expense of reducing income. Not a huge problem in my book.
Carriers would be the (potential) problem. Belt rats? No problem, since there’s no money there. Regular hisec anoms? Same. Event spawns like Guardian’s Gala and Emerging Wormholes? Those don’t make a ton of money, but you’d be much safer making it and would finished them reasonably quickly too. Missions? Gated ones are off limits obviously, but ungated level 4s? Yeah, there’s potential to break the risk v. reward balance there. Clearly a carrier would be safer than any subcap in a PvE setting, but, at least in hisec, would they actually generate more income? I’m less certain. The reason carriers and supers generate so much ISK in nullsec is because they can just bounce around between plentiful, and highly valuable, anoms, blap what they need to, and move on. Without those anoms, that model kind of falls apart.
But, at the end of the day, my main point was to illuminate just how broken Rorqs, Supers, and Titans in hisec would be. I think there’s room for discussion about Carriers and Dreads…but I think having that discussion here would be counter-productive given the current audience.
Just because something once was doesn’t mean it is justification for it to be that way again…
Sure it is, when the cause of the change (weak concord thus mass killings by capitals) no longer applies.
LOL…you can’t even protect yourselves now…
This is purely a vanity project…you probably have the ISK and/or ability to make Supers or Titian but don’t want any of the risk…
Sure we are protecting ourselves, and there is always risk, capital price may go down, they may be nerfed, I may accidentally hit the wrong gate into lowsec or I may flag myself as a suspect. I can even be ganked by a determined foe.
Once again, you saying that does not help your side. You call me farmer trash too and I barely touch PvE, so by “farmer trash” you’re really just saying “anyone I disagree with”.
To a ‘bittervet’ everyone is farmer trash.
That doesn’t make them farmer trash, that makes them an EVE player. They want buffs to their playstyle and less of the opposing playstyle.
Aye, and much to this person’s surprise I really don’t want to nerf anyone’s gameplay. A sandbox game is at its best when there are a lot of players (huge empires in null remove potential entities from the sandbox) lots of toys to foster different strategy and diversity in gamestyle, and finally balance being not a limitation on toys, but rather the style of gameplay and resources you can gather in the respective area.
End of your discussion maybe, not the end of ours. I’m quite happy for you to eject yourself from this discussion if you feel it’s a waste of time. Goodbye.
I wish to thank you for having such a good conversation, this forum needs more people like you.
It moved that way a bit, sure, but that doesn’t mean we’re locked to that thinking forever. CCP have clearly realised they were neglecting highsec which is why there’s so much more highsec content now. You must have thrown a proper tantrum when moon mining became a thing in highsec.
I’m glad that CCP has started to look at highsec now, years and years of neglect have caused tens of thousands of players to quit the game, and arguably permanently damaged EVE’s potential growth in playerbase. While the countless players lost can never be regained, we can work to keep those who are here right now.
And I’m sure he had a great time when he saw that change in highsec
Lolwut? Nobody is going to be using capitals for suicide ganking, they’re going to declare a CONCORD-sanctioned war and drop 100 titans on your highsec station. Or maybe it will be 500 now that they can mass produce them in absolute safety.
I may accidentally hit the wrong gate into lowsec
If you are seriously suggesting that “oops, I hit the wrong gate and jumped into lowsec” is a balancing factor then that is a concession of defeat.
To a ‘bittervet’ everyone is farmer trash.
No, only farmer trash like you. There are lots of people in EVE that I would never call farmer trash because they aren’t.
Aye, and much to this person’s surprise I really don’t want to nerf anyone’s gameplay.
Then you don’t understand game design, because buffing your highsec farming while leaving nullsec farming income static is a nerf to nullsec. And you have openly declared that you want to do this.
Somewhere in New Eden, there awaits someone wanting to use a Naglfar or two to suicide gank a freighter in hisec. It almost certainly wouldn’t be cost effective, but I promise you someone would do it on occasion for the lulz.
But, to your point, yes, the primary PvP use of capital ships (well, dreads at least) in hisec would almost certainly be in wardecs to bash (or defend) structures. NSA carriers playing war target undock games would likely be a thing too, but…it’s undock games…
No, that would be you being an idiot troll and building straw man arguments. A lack of precedent is reason to be careful, not an absolute “no” answer to a proposal.
Is that a bad thing? If titans and supers were useless in high sec other than flying around to show them off, would that be a problem for example? It would tun a bunch of or and a bunch of isk into really big ships, which drives content.
If they’re useless then what’s the point in implementing this change? Wasting even 15 minutes of developer time on coding the required restrictions would be way more than such a stupid idea deserves.
